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[Power]

Yeah, Valve surely said that in jest, but by now it pretty much sums the game up.

[Mr Chug]

People get what they want out of it. Some people are that hat crazy, but it's still the same game underneath. With the possible exception of (not exactly game breaking) set bonuses, they can be completely ignored for no difference whatsoever.

[Junta]

I'm disgusted by Valve on the trading front now tbh...

You can't implement a "free market" system then retrospectively punish and ban participants because of "unfair" practices. If two parties trade and one hasn't been paying attention then that's tough crap. For Valve to lock an entire account on the basis of trading a hat is crap.

This is one of the real issues and risks for me now, I could spend a fortune on games via steam and risk them ALL being unavailable / gone on the whim of some Valve support person or worse, an automated rules engine that got the wrong idea. Sadly this does mean buying the odd DVD again for me now... I really don't want 90% of my most played games to be tied into steam if I can help it. The risks are just getting worse, and this doesn't even begin to cover the possibilities of having your account hacked!

Trading should have been simply labelled "use at your own risk" or "trader beware".

[Chaos]

I'm disgusted by Valve on the trading front now tbh...

You can't implement a "free market" system then retrospectively punish and ban participants because of "unfair" practices. If two parties trade and one hasn't been paying attention then that's tough crap. For Valve to lock an entire account on the basis of trading a hat is crap.

This is one of the real issues and risks for me now, I could spend a fortune on games via steam and risk them ALL being unavailable / gone on the whim of some Valve support person or worse, an automated rules engine that got the wrong idea. Sadly this does mean buying the odd DVD again for me now... I really don't want 90% of my most played games to be tied into steam if I can help it. The risks are just getting worse, and this doesn't even begin to cover the possibilities of having your account hacked!

Trading should have been simply labelled "use at your own risk" or "trader beware".

it's kinda nice that valve are taking an interest in the plight of the victims.. but like you said, banning guys cuz of in game game items is retarded and I really hope it stops soon

[Mr Chug]

I'd hope it's a temporary stopgap- it seems to me the best solution would be to reverse all dodgy trade that a proven scammer has done, then ban them from trading. As it stands whatever solution they decide on might take a while to implement.

I find it a bit funny that after all the jokes about valve being obsessed with hats, they make a bad decision because they underestimated the community's obsession with hats too.

[DeadlyAvenger]

I'd hope it's a temporary stopgap- it seems to me the best solution would be to reverse all dodgy trade that a proven scammer has done, then ban them from trading. As it stands whatever solution they decide on might take a while to implement.

I find it a bit funny that after all the jokes about valve being obsessed with hats, they make a bad decision because they underestimated the community's obsession with hats too.

As soon as you implement trading you are going to get people scamming other people. What makes it even worse is if real money if involved.

If you had just trading, without the micro-transactions it wouldn't be so bad as you won't potentially get scammed out of money *and* items etc. Although tbh I'm not sure which items you can/can't craft/trade from the store.

[Officer Dibble]

AFAIK you can't trade or craft anything bought from the store.

[Power]

People get what they want out of it. Some people are that hat crazy, but it's still the same game underneath. With the possible exception of (not exactly game breaking) set bonuses, they can be completely ignored for no difference whatsoever.

Unfortunately I have to disagree. Hats are just a small part of it. It is the same game underneath, but it's buried by a lot of unnecessary stuff. If it would just be the hats I wouldn't say anything. A little personal touch to your character is a nice thing, but Valve went way overboard with the latest update.

One thing we already have a discussion on is the departure of one of Valve's main design principles for TF2 - you are able to identify the enemy class and what to expect of it the second you see it. That's why every class looks so distinguished from one another. They already stepped away from that the moment they started with the class updates, which was the point where we had our first discussion about it. As they introduce more and more weapons and items, that are actually DOING something, they step away from their own design principle and I can't help but feel that "you are able to identify the enemy class and what to expect of it the second you see it" has been replaced by "you are able to identify a rare effect on the hat of an enemy the moment you see it".

Then there are the introduced methods to suck money out of you, which is SO not Valve I don't even know what to think. After the initial disgust with the crates and their "gimme money for an equilizer" principle (which is basically straight gambling, except the rewards are... well... meh) I can't help but see people paying up for keys after keys after keys. Now I don't give a damn what you do with your money, but chasing after the items becomes way too important for the game to stay the same. And I have to remind myself over and over again, that I am talking about my favourite FIRST PERSON SHOOTER of the last years here, not some RPG or whatever.

Now this two points are still falling into the "DEAL WITH IT" category. Sure, I can try to ignore some fire or ghost particles over someones head, appearing for no reason at all, whatever man. It doesn't even look good. Looking forward to a "headless hat with a blood fountain out of your neck" items. BUT there are also several things with the mann co update that actually take away from the GAMEPLAY, which I cannot just "DEAL WITH", because it affects me and my enjoyment of the game directly.

- Duels: making people going after another instead of after everyone, neglecting the point of the game and often also the actual MAP OBJECTIVE (remember when it was about the map objective? Yeah...)
- People standing still all over the map, while they are finishing up their very important trading transaction, basically not playing the game at all
- The god damn fish... yeah, I get it, it's funny. But when I see 2-3 scouts per team running around with the fish out, I could rage hard. They aren't contributing much to the team. Sure the occasional kill is ROFLMAO-quality (Really? After you saw it for 500 times it's still funny?), but all you do is wasting a player slot and a scout slot in exchange for LULZ. Seeing those scouts on a team that is already losing hard is a thing that I can't just "DEAL WITH IT"

May I remind you, that we're talking about our server here. If things are that bad at OUR server, I don't want to know what is happening on the public joe servers. It makes me want to quit the game for good. Honestly.

That felt good.

[Chaos]

agree with power tbh

I vote vanilla + medlocks ftw

[LtMama]

*pulls out pen and notepad*

I see, and how does that make you feel?  

Fair points though

I think one thing valve have really ballsed up on is getting new players into the game. I've been playing since launch pretty much, so I've been there for every update etc. so I've come to know and understand all the new weapons etc through gradual adjustments and changes. However for a new player, it's fucking baffling.

Been trying to get Jen into TF2, but one thing that's putting her off is she's plain confused about what's going on, what all the weapons do, what she should avoid doing etc etc. And I even have a hard time trying to explain things to her purely because there is so much shit to explain. So i can only imagine what it must be like for someone who doesnt have someone giving them an insight to the game playing for the first time. I suspect it would be play for 15 minutes - "Wtf just happened?" - Never play again

[Brahms]

tell her to go solly. Shoot feet explode enemy gg.

[Chaos]

tell her to go solly. Shoot feet explode enemy gg.

use spade on man to win more

[Karthus]

Been trying to get Jen into TF2, but one thing that's putting her off is she's plain confused about what's going on, what all the weapons do, what she should avoid doing etc etc. And I even have a hard time trying to explain things to her purely because there is so much shit to explain. So i can only imagine what it must be like for someone who doesnt have someone giving them an insight to the game playing for the first time. I suspect it would be play for 15 minutes - "Wtf just happened?" - Never play again

TBH I expect alot of new players to do the same. One of my schoolfriends decided to buy the game when the Mannconomy update came out (it was only 7 bucks I think) and he really wanted to get into it but everytime he tries to play, he just gets confused by all those new weapons and trading requests and stuff. I predict hes gonna quit soon.

[Bl4ck]

My friend bought it just a few days ago too, he's really enjoying it.
Just my 2 cents.

[Hzza]

Powers my hero.