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December 2025

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[discordance]

I'm sorry, but what exactly is the label here? For him to not have the halo? Just so I understand.

I believe that his steam profile now shows "cheat"

I stand corrected, there is no label on the steam profile... just a "cheat detector" item in the backpack.

This lessens the issue for me tbh... if there is no permanent "black mark" on the steam profile.

well its a permanent mark on the backpack, but only visible at tf2items.com. The only negative is anyone with it is marked for complete item deletion if valve thinks they do anything wrong again.

Obviously using 3rd party programs is never a good idea but the message in peoples backpacks is your account has been flagged for circumventing the item distribution system which is exactly what anyone in idle box is doing, to draw the line at idling with external tools is a really crappy message to send to the player base (Its ok to idle in idle box). Any punishment should have been equally applied to idle box users in this case, or they should have made it clearer this about about external tools not idling.

[AmS]

f) reward the people who did nothing wrong and hoped that the system will work eventually and at the same time made up for the apparently way too low drop rates on the hats (they upped them significantly if you'll remember).

If so, they could just give a random hat as a reward.

[egg]

I'm sorry, but what exactly is the label here? For him to not have the halo? Just so I understand.

I believe that his steam profile now shows "cheat"

I stand corrected, there is no label on the steam profile... just a "cheat detector" item in the backpack.

This lessens the issue for me tbh... if there is no permanent "black mark" on the steam profile.

well its a permanent mark on the backpack, but only visible at tf2items.com. The only negative is anyone with it is marked for complete item deletion if valve thinks they do anything wrong again.

Obviously using 3rd party programs is never a good idea but the message in peoples backpacks is your account has been flagged for circumventing the item distribution system which is exactly what anyone in idle box is doing, to draw the line at idling with external tools is a really crappy message to send to the player base (Its ok to idle in idle box). Any punishment should have been equally applied to idle box users in this case, or they should have made it clearer this about about external tools not idling.

It was exactly the same with achievments....

You used the unlock tool and gained all new weapons...

or you farmed the achievements in a a server.....

USING A TOOL IS AGAINST THE TOS. WHATEVER YOU DO IN A LIVE SERVER IS NOT.

[Power]

f) reward the people who did nothing wrong and hoped that the system will work eventually and at the same time made up for the apparently way too low drop rates on the hats (they upped them significantly if you'll remember).

If so, they could just give a random hat as a reward.

Good point, I guess they are indeed punishing the idlers by giving everyone else an item that they can't get randomly (if that's the case). But even that punishment only burns as much as you let it to burn you. Do you really care about a frickin halo that most of the people now have?

Also, to stop all the arguements towards the "Valve=hypocrite for not also punishing the idlers on the server". Ask yourself a question: if Valve did, would it change any of the things that happened to you personally? Could it be that you are indeed mad about what happened to you instead of what didn't happen to the server idlers? If so, what difference does it make if you've been punished for something you shouldn't do in first place and someone else didn't? What's the point of being angry about the one "justified" thing there is to be angry about (even if it has NOTHING to do with your personal case)?

[discordance]

power i have a halo, I think idle box needs to be punished equally. while egg is right the steam subscriber agreement forbids use of 3rd party tools for cheats it also says "Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers."

While the wording is far from explicit about exploiting in real servers theyve left it open for them to punish for anything they believe "constitutes a Cheat". So by not punishing idle box they send the message its ok to do. I just don't think zero-tolerance on external tools and turning a blind eye on exploiting because its in a real server is anywhere near fair or appropiate

[Twiggeh]

Does anyone know how to actually equip the halo? I apparently have it but not in my pack to equip...

[egg]

power i have a halo, I think idle box needs to be punished equally. while egg is right the steam subscriber agreement forbids use of 3rd party tools for cheats it also says "Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers."

While the wording is far from explicit about exploiting in real servers theyve left it open for them to punish for anything they believe "constitutes a Cheat". So by not punishing idle box they send the message its ok to do. I just don't think zero-tolerance on external tools and turning a blind eye on exploiting because its in a real server is anywhere near fair or appropiate

Again I disagree.

Its up to server admins to configure their server for the use its intended.

Achievment servers run maps designed to specifically gain achievments, and they have no goal.

Idle Box, is simply a server set up where people who are idle are not kicked.....

Its not detrimental to play as people who join idle box know exactly whatrs its for and it doesnt disrupt normal playtime of people in 'normal' servers.

You forget that people who idle usually do when they dont intend to play at that time anyway....

[discordance]

Just because it doesn't disrupt other people doesn't mean its not an exploit. and again the wording valve have chosen to use is "your account has been flagged for circumventing the item distribution system". Which is exactly what idle boxes facilitate.

[CruelCow]

So if you draw the line at external tools, I am cheating when I'm using the autodemo tool?

[AmS]

Good point, I guess they are indeed punishing the idlers by giving everyone else an item that they can't get randomly (if that's the case). But even that punishment only burns as much as you let it to burn you. Do you really care about a frickin halo that most of the people now have?

Also a good point.

Also, to stop all the arguements towards the "Valve=hypocrite for not also punishing the idlers on the server". Ask yourself a question: if Valve did, would it change any of the things that happened to you personally? Could it be that you are indeed mad about what happened to you instead of what didn't happen to the server idlers? If so, what difference does it make if you've been punished for something you shouldn't do in first place and someone else didn't? What's the point of being angry about the one "justified" thing there is to be angry about (even if it has NOTHING to do with your personal case)?

I never said i'm angry but rather disappointed. I dont care that much if got something deleted or havent get the halo. But the whole thing doesnt affect only me or idlers/non-idlers, it affects the whole community. Just take a look on whats happening.

Servers are kicking/banning people with Halos.
Servers are kicking/banning people without Halos.
Medics are not healing people with Halos.
Medics are only healing people with Halos.

Thats not exactly what TF2 is meant to be.
There were much better ways to get rid off the idler.

[Power]

power i have a halo, I think idle box needs to be punished equally. while egg is right the steam subscriber agreement forbids use of 3rd party tools for cheats it also says "Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers."

While the wording is far from explicit about exploiting in real servers theyve left it open for them to punish for anything they believe "constitutes a Cheat". So by not punishing idle box they send the message its ok to do. I just don't think zero-tolerance on external tools and turning a blind eye on exploiting because its in a real server is anywhere near fair or appropiate

I really think it's more of a technical problem of detecting it than of not wanting to punish the server idlers. They probably just CAN'T determine if you got an item while playing or while standing around. It's another thing with using a third party application which uses hacked server files I guess. I'm not a programmer, though

[Magathery]

WOW. That's certainly spiraled up like an unexpected tornado on a quie afternoon at camp!

Is it safe to asume that there are going to be one or two u-turn like events happening from Valve over the next few days & weeks?


I'd better fire up the game and see what updates there are today.

[claws]

USING A TOOL IS AGAINST THE TOS. WHATEVER YOU DO IN A LIVE SERVER IS NOT.

Well that's nonsense. There's a lot of scripts which frankly blurred the line between playing 'fair' and 'normally' too - and Valve have cut down scripting capability over and over again in response. I suppose the scripters will deny they ever tried to game the system too.

I agree with discordance on idling.

Power : I'd assume they can, because they seem to track a lot of player events/deaths/etc for their own stats purposes. I'm certain there's things they could do, if they wanted, but it's easier to just punish the idlers.

Think I'll bow out of this thread for now before it all turns into a big(ger) argument

[Junta]

Yep. I think we'll lock it down soon - some good comments by all I think!

Plenty to think about for sure

[discordance]

well there is a distinction on how you are circumventing, but its still to the same aim and valves wording seems to suggest any means of circumvention is bad. As for detection yes all valve can do is figure out whose played on idle maps or servers, they can't identify what items were gained from standing around to mete out any punishment. But if thats the case maybe everyone should have been warned instead of punished and they should have brought in measure to the item drop system to check for user inputs every few minutes, any false user input would be a punishable 3rd party cheat and that way you can only get the drops from actually playing.