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My CommunityForumPublicTechnicalTopic: Which is better Dual or Quad Core?
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Chaos
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« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2009, 03:15:11 PM »

I can vouch for how good the E8400 is ... just waiting for some OC advice from Jordan Grin Grin
You make it sound asif you've asked!!!
But I have! Cheesy
well now you have!
haha
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« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2009, 04:01:05 PM »

I'm starting to feel very out of touch, a few years ago (ie before I got married) I wouldn't of needed to ask these questions.  Now however....

Whats the difference between the different Intel motherboard chipsets and how do they compare with the Nvidia chipsets.
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« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2009, 04:08:25 PM »

Different chipsets have support for diffent things. I think the P45 has support for faster DDR2 ram and PCi-E 2.0 over the P35. It will also support newer CPU types.
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« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2009, 04:16:20 PM »

Single GPU + Intel C2D = P45
Dual GPU + Intel C2D = X48
Single GPU + Intel C2Q = P45
Dual GPU + Intel C2Q = X48

in some situations it will be different... but thats mainly it..
Untill Foxconn or DFI release the dual X16 lane CF board anyway
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« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2009, 04:40:26 PM »

Radeon 4870's and 4850's have just had a price cut (might take a little while for price changes to filter over to europe)
I saw the 1GB 4870 for £165 inc VAT on Overclockers this morning, that's an awesome deal.

@Papa - The 45nm Phenom 2's compete quite well clock for clock now, and you should be able to get a triple core for the same sort of price as a Dual Core Intel. They overclock decently too.
What they don't compete with is the i7 chips, but the i7 platform is still very expensive.
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« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2009, 05:34:02 PM »

TBH I know very little about AMD CPU's these days. Most of the reviews I've read don't rate them OC'ing, in comparison with C2D/C2Q. Can u knock up a buy list 4 Milli, with what u know about the AMD side of the market?
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« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2009, 05:46:06 PM »

I too am more in touch with intels CPUs...
I know that the new PhenomII 940 is actually faster at stock than the Q9650 in games... but it doesnt clock so well...
but the AMD is £170 and the intel is £260!
MASSIVE difference in price!

The Phenom I CPUs are worth avoiding.. while very cheap, so is the performance!
your actually better off getting an AM2 cpu as the performance will be a bit better in games and itll clock higher on cheaper motherboards!
The AM2 duals are pretty competent with modern games... theyr not as good as the intel Core2Duos but again, theyre a lot cheaper.. so you get what you pay for (kinda... the amd are better bang per buck at stock clocks)

Seeing as nobody keeps stock clocks anymore and overclocking is in reach of almost anybody, the Intel chips are overtaking the market like never before!
Hence the price crash on AMDs products!
What most people dont realise is that AMD (up untill recently) have had the only 64 bit CPUs with a true 64 bit arch...
Which doesnt make much sence as a purchase right now, but will be better for future OS releases as soon, all Windows and Linux will be 100% X64 with very little to no x86 support!

My recomendation for you Trev,
Save a bit more cash..
Around 400 quid can get you a good system these days...
and itll last you longer than a 250 investment now

Ditch the Quad, upgrade that mobo to a P45 and get a good core2duo...
that way, your making life easier and cheaper in the future!
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« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2009, 05:50:04 PM »

as soon, all Windows and Linux will be 100% X64 with very little to no x86 support!
Sorry, I disagree mate. There will be x86 support because Windows supports legacy applications and this has always been the reason why we've had slow adoption of the next big thing (64 bit). The x86 support will also be there because a 64 bit platform can of course run 32 bit commands Smiley (just as a 32bit OS can run 16 bit code... if it were allowed! lol)
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« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2009, 05:52:58 PM »

What you said is true!
but the key point there is legacy... its not native!
Im just trying to get him the best futureproof and performance for his budget!
as each case I look at is different (especially on this forums... budgets vary, wants and needs vary ect)
so should I adjust my methods of advice gathering!
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« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2009, 06:04:54 PM »

What you said is true!
but the key point there is legacy... its not native!
Im just trying to get him the best futureproof and performance for his budget!
as each case I look at is different (especially on this forums... budgets vary, wants and needs vary ect)
so should I adjust my methods of advice gathering!
I wasn't trying to disagree with the excellent advice on hardware Wink - just advising that x86 isn't going to be as dead as we want it to be Grin Grin
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« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2009, 06:10:36 PM »

haha

Im not gay.. but I am for Junta
<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3
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« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2009, 06:22:22 PM »

Just found this... quite helpful in explaining clock speeds at least

Quote
Judging computer performance by GHz alone is a common misconception.

The clock speed of a CPU (the GHz) has nothing to do with relative performance of the processor... except when comparing it to other processors in the same product line.

What I mean here is that you cannot compare a 3.0 Ghz Intel P4 to a AMD processor or PowerPC processor - the Ghz means nothing at all...

However, if you compare a 3.0 Ghz Intel P4 with a 2.8 Ghz Intel P4 - THEN you have a valid comparison.  The higher clock rate will be generally faster than the lower clock rate.  (note that there are workloads where this is not true).

Now, more about the misconception - there are a lot of other factors that affect performance in computers.  Processor speed is only one of them.  Memory speed and architecture, internal bus speeds, storage technology, and software (OS and application) all contribute heavily to the perceived speed of a computer.

If you take a look at some of the performance-related websites (such as ww.spec.org), you'll see that computers with different CPUs handle different workloads better than others.

A good example for comparison (for an average consumer) is comparing a desktop to a laptop computer.   I'll say now that desktops are generally faster than laptops, even at the same clock rate (Ghz).  Why, you ask?  Well, it's the other components that make the desktop faster.   Typically, the disk in a laptop spins at 4200rpm (some are 5400 rpm), where a typical desktop has a 7200 rpm drive.  The CD-ROM in a laptop is typically slower than what you find in desktops also.

The idea here is that it doesn't matter how fast the processor is, if the processor is sitting around twiddling it's thumbs while it waits for data from the hard drive/network/memory/whatever.

When it comes to pure speed of the processor, there are several definitions of speed...  again, it relates to workload.  For example, there's Integer Math speed (see the SPECint2006 benchmark at www.spec.org), Integer Math Rate (throughput - SPECint_rate2006), Floating Point Math speed (SPECfp2006), and Floating Point Math Rate (SPECfp_rate2006).  Processors that are great at Integer math may stink at floating point, and vice versa.

Some CPUs are made with bigger, badder math capabilities, others with better I/O throughput.  Your choice depends on what you want to do with the computer, and are getting less and less every day as proprietary CPUs (such as PowerPC, Alpha, SPARC, and PA-RISC processors) are dropping by the wayside in favor of cheaper, mass-market Intel and AMD CPUs that are considered "good enough" these days.

About your comment about multi-core CPUs (quad-core vs. Dual-core vs. single-core)...  The clock rate is important only if you run a single-threaded application.  Such applications will run on only 1 of the cores, and will make a quad-core 2.4Ghz CPU look slower than a single-core P4 @ 3.2 Ghz.

These days, we often do a few things with our computers at a time (download a file, fetch our email, surf the net, etc.) so even a desktop user will see some benefit from a multi-core architecture because it can do more than one thing at a time.  The single-core CPU can only execute one program at a time, where the quad-core can execute 4 at a time.

So, being able to execute 4 programs simultaneously at 2.4 Ghz vs. 4 programs one at a time (well, timesliced, they appear to run at the same time) at 3.2 Ghz - you're likely to find that the quad-core gets more done in the same amount of time - so it's "faster", even though it has a lower clock rate.

You can equate this to you and your friends running errands...  let say that you need to go to the Supermarket, Sports Authority, Best Buy, and the liquor store - and each are in a different direction from your home (one is north, one is east, one is south, and one is west).   You could leave your friends at home and go to the supermarket, then to Sports Authority, then Best Buy, then the Liquor Store OR you could send 3 of your friends, each to one of the stores while you go to the Supermarket.   Which will be faster?   Sending your friends, of course.

Now what about if you have only one errand to run...  just the supermarket...  going yourself is the only choice, and your friends will just have to wait until you get home with the chips.  ;^)  The additional "cores" (your friends) are no help when there's only one thing to do.

You're probably just as confused as ever (maybe even more so), but I hope this helps in some small way.

Good luck!!!
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2009, 06:42:02 PM »

TBH I know very little about AMD CPU's these days. Most of the reviews I've read don't rate them OC'ing, in comparison with C2D/C2Q. Can u knock up a buy list 4 Milli, with what u know about the AMD side of the market?
Now that they moved the process from 65nm to 45nm for the Phenom 2's, they have a lot more headroom for overclocking.

The 2.8GHz Phenom 2 x3 720 black Edition (Unlocked multiplier for really simple overclocking) is around £125 inc VAT.

This is about the same as the 2.93GHz Intel e7500 dual core, but gives you a core to spare.

This PC Perspective article gives a good idea of performance vs a Dual Core (They are testing vs the £165 Intel e8500 however)
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=667&type=expert&pid=1
Basically in one and two threaded apps they are very close in everything, anything with more threads and the Phenom shines with it's extra core.

Motherboards are reasonable (You can use AM3 chips in either the DDR2 based AM2+, or the DDR3 based AM3 sockets) costing roughly £50-£60 for a non-crossfire AM2+ board.
DDR2 is dirt cheap, you can get a 4GB kit for less than £30.

Thats roughly £210 for the core of your system, grab a cheap case for £20, 80+ rated 500W PSU @ ~£40, 250GB hdd for £35 and a 512mb radeon 4850 for £115

That'll handle pretty much anything out atm on high settings for £420, call it £430 delivered.

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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2009, 06:45:22 PM »

as soon, all Windows and Linux will be 100% X64 with very little to no x86 support!
Sorry, I disagree mate. There will be x86 support because Windows supports legacy applications and this has always been the reason why we've had slow adoption of the next big thing (64 bit). The x86 support will also be there because a 64 bit platform can of course run 32 bit commands Smiley (just as a 32bit OS can run 16 bit code... if it were allowed! lol)

Aye, amongst its other frustrating issues, the School Database used on my work placement still had 16bit code buried in there from god knows when.
Unfortunately you can't run 16 bit code on a 64 bit system, so we had to have a couple of 32 bit servers just for that.
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« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2009, 01:15:16 PM »

Looks like the upgrade is back on despite the washing machine suddenly disassembling (love to mum in law for buying us a new one).

Sooo.... what can I get for £250 now?.................. how about now?

And Junta, do you still have your RAM for sale?
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