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[discordance]

I hear good things about the Palm Pre, too.

Still I'm staying with my iPhone because CalDav (esp. OTA, background sync) is pretty essential for me and I'm not convinced Android's 3rd party stuff would do it for me.

"Google Calendar supports CalDAV using iCal 3.x [8] and Mozilla Sunbird 0.8+[9]."

You should check out a full feature comparison r007, the iphone is actually way behind android on features now. Although its going to catch up somewhat with ios5.

Full list of things android has that ios doesnt is something like flash, wireless hotspot, widgets, usb support, alternate virtual keyboards, themese, real multitasking instead of app switching, free syncing to google services of all your infos. icloud finally does it free for iphone but with usage limits "For example, if you publish a 50 megabyte (MB) movie, and ten of your friends view it, 500 MB of your allotted data-transfer quota is used.", you only get 2gb free with google compared to 5gb with apple but upgrades are cheaper I pay google $5 a year for 20gb, with apple you'd pay $40 for 20gb. battery monitor which monitors the battery use of each program is built into android as well not sure if ios has that.

Don't forget android phones are normal phones where you can take out and change your battery and memory card! WOW.

[r007]

@disco: Yes, but the entire _point_ to having a personal CalDav server in the first place is AVOIDING GOOGLE LIKE THE PLAGUE. (And iCloud as well, for that matter.)

... Battery monitor is a feature I miss, so is using the phone as a mass storage device in a pinch.
The rest is mostly fluff (widgets and themes are a decisive feature? feels like a shooter-based hat simulator I know...).

I just want my info (Mail, Calendar, Contacts, ToDo) in sync with my personal server, which I pay already for anyway, and have as much storage and traffic as I want. Plus if my data gets lost I know it's entirely my fault. My smartphone does that for me, plus a bit of maps and browsing, and plays my music. Really, I HATED having three separate devices (phone, mp3-player, PDA) in ye olden days.

[discordance]

yes my phone has sucked up mp3 player, and usb stick, and everything else.

I don't understand the massive fear of hosting everything with google? I sync my documents and stuff locally, contacts and stuff I don't currently but its something i'm looking into even if its just hitting the export button once a month. Privacy issues don't really bother me, i've got no information worth stealing and the truly sensitive data you'd need for fraud isn't on there. As for google spying into what data I hold I trust that as a large company they come under too much scrutiny to really pull off something scandalous. The entire company is made up of tech experts so you can't hide stuff from them very easily, and the us government and other groups are already concerned over data privacy i'm sure they will keep on top of it.

[Brahms]

Cuz when Google goes down we're all fucked. To be fair I'm not bothered about losing anything except my email address.

[r007]

Let's just say I'm quite possibly a bit paranoid about it (same reason I also have no facebook account).

A) If you're not paying for it, then you're not the customer, you're the product.
B) Just because you aren't paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

I won't argue that life isn't comfortable once you "embrace the google", but I'm not just there yet.

[discordance]

I don't think paying for say email improves the quality of service over a free email account. And the business market is still the main arena for companies selling contacts/calender/email management like microsoft and google and generally we get the same services that were developed for the profitable business market in the home version. Google monetise through ads and compiling customer profiles sure but as long as it remains anonymous (and deletable through the dashboard which it is) i'm not bothered.

I don't think paranoia is a good reason to sacrifice usability. If you really want to start getting paranoid theres a whole host of companies, hacker groups and governments online that could fuck you if they felt like it, its a risk of doing anything online. If anything I think a large company with a lot to lose and under scrutiny would find it a lot harder to abuse you than a hacking group or government.

[CruelCow]

A) If you're not paying for it, then you're not the customer, you're the product.

Or there is a more complex system than customer, seller and product

[r007]

Apologies for going vastly off topic. Also I feel this is turning into some kind of flame war, or at least a smoulder skirmish. I'll try to keep reasonable, though it's (apparently) a touchy subject for both of us.

I don't think paying for say email improves the quality of service over a free email account.

The overall QoS, probably not. If I factor in maintenance time, downtime due to hoster issues, etc. it'll probably come out even, or a little worse. There are, however, a few key points that I like having control over, them being: Direct access to backend storage for backup purposes (yes, I keep a daily backup); logfile access for checking if an important message was delivered; server side filtering and foldering (where would I be sans .procmailrc).

as long as it remains anonymous (and deletable through the dashboard which it is) i'm not bothered.

It should be anonymous. If one had access to all of my e-Mail history (anonymized, of course), I am pretty confident they could still discern me by, say, writing style.
It should be deletable. Can you guarantee it is? If I want my stuff gone I'll go fetch the server's harddrive and have the platters say Hi to the business end of a sledgehammer.
These are things _I_ am bothered about. Fair enough if you aren't.

I don't think paranoia is a good reason to sacrifice usability.

I'm not sure I'm sacrificing usability -- comfort maybe. Right now, I feel I am getting pretty much the service I want for a price that I think reasonable. 'Peace of mind' constitutes a valid currency in this deal. (Aside: Isn't ease of use the only thing left to sacrifice if you're _really_ paranoid? I mean, it'd sure make it harder for THEM if it's not trivial for you... Discalimer: I'm not really that paranoid.) 

Or there is a more complex system than customer, seller and product

Well yes, it's in fact a chaotic system governed by seemingly quantum-mechanical-esque variables, yet at some point, I feel this simplification is rather apt. Feel free to generalize to 'demand, provider and service', or 'me, life and sense of fulfilment'. What I was going for, is that usually you relinquish something to gain something else.

It appears to boil down to (ease of) service at the cost of control. At the end of the day, it's your decision to make if you feel you're getting a fair deal out of it. Same tradeoff with my smartphone really (hah, made it back on topic!): I gave up the freedoms of changing battery and memory card for ease of using my own backend instead of google's. It's a bit more than that, but that's part of it.

[discordance]

there's no flaming here, just discourse and friendly debate. For one I know you are way more knowledgeable about servers than me and i'm interested to hear your rebuttals to my opinion.

Its interesting also that one of your reasons for using iphone is control over your own services, yet in doing so you are giving up control of the phone itself including hardware to one of the most controlling companies out there.

[Hzza]

Who votes disco shuts the fuck up?

[Power]

REPOST! You are banned from the forums!

[Millicent Bystander]

My sister in law and my niece have gone through several iPhones in the few months since they started their contract, they are not the only people who I know of who have had problems with the latest iPhone either.  Having said that one of the phones did survive being chucked in a paddling pool by my niece's 2 year old son.

[discordance]

Who votes disco shuts the fuck up?

Well there wasn't any flaming until hzza decided to show up and be a dick.

[r007]

Its interesting also that one of your reasons for using iphone is control over your own services, yet in doing so you are giving up control of the phone itself including hardware to one of the most controlling companies out there.

Another reason for my choice was that I moved over to the MacOS ecosystem before I bought my phone. (Summary for that: Current Windows was Vista, 7 not in sight, so Unix with "carefree" GUI on top = t3h awesome.) iCal/CalDAV feels on par with Outlook/Exchange concerning personal calendaring. Yet I like Mail/IMAP much better than Outlook/Exchange -- if only for IMAP's possibility to use other clients than Outlook; also "just" an Exchange server is hard to come by... (I keep having nightmares about ActiveDirectory.) Since around then I started studying I have been using a desktop and laptop regularly, sync is essential, hence my early move towards a server-based solution.

To put it into perspective, I have an iPhone 3G. So two (soon three) generations removed. At the time, Android using non-google services seemed a royal PITA for me, whereas iOS promised to fit into my ecosystem. Android only caught up later, and neither CalDAV nor Exchange calendar is in baseline Android yet. (Of course, since google want you to use their services...)

TBH, Apple have gotten worse as well. I'm pretty grumpy about their lack of support for older models like mine, but that's not uncommon in the Android world too, and I hear older Palm devices suffer from "we won't patch your OS anymore so you need to buy a new device" sydrome, too. Lion only in App Store is a similarly bad move I think, but I digress...

they are not the only people who I know of who have had problems with the latest iPhone either. 

Personally, I wouldn't touch an iPhone 4 with an 11-foot pole. (Antennagate...) I'm hoping for the new one, but am still holding my horses.

[Finaldeath]

Anyone got any other smartphone recommendations? No price limit, but certainly I'd want SD card support (so I can fit a 32GB card) and the latest Android version.

Battery power for me is one thing though; anyone got usage amounts? If I want to replace my MP3 player, it might be running as a music device a lot!