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October 2025

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[Bl4ck]

Second, let me explain: I utterly despise snipers. I love how valve put it in the comments: People hate death the most when they didn't see it coming or had no chance to react even if they did, but the very essence of the sniper is to create such a situation. I dislike snipers in all games. I dislike how they can kill you without you being able to retaliate. I dislike the instantkill.

For the above, replace sniper with spy and it still makes sense

I disagree.

Spies have to physically touch you to instantkill you, and all you have to do to negate it is to turn around (ignoring facestabs for the moment). You have the opportunity to defend yourself from a spy, if one gets in the position where he can backstab you it's because you weren't paying attention. With a sniper, all that determines whether or not you die is the sniper's skill, your skill doesn't even enter into the equation. That is why it is more annoying to get killed by a sniper than by any other class imo.

+1,
I hate Snipers for exactly that reason

[Brahms]

The only game I've liked snipers in was the Day of Defeat games, because they really added to the tension, there was normally only one allowed per team, and if you killed one and picked up his rifle, you could temporarily swing the odds in your team's favour.

Sort of feel like playing day of defeat now.

EDIT: And obviously, I still never played as one, because irritation aside, they are cowards.

Also, I don't see why they got given the razorback. They can randomly kill you in a way that left no room to counter attack, why shouldn't they die in the same way?

[DeadlyAvenger]

Second, let me explain: I utterly despise snipers. I love how valve put it in the comments: People hate death the most when they didn't see it coming or had no chance to react even if they did, but the very essence of the sniper is to create such a situation. I dislike snipers in all games. I dislike how they can kill you without you being able to retaliate. I dislike the instantkill.

For the above, replace sniper with spy and it still makes sense

I disagree.

Spies have to physically touch you to instantkill you, and all you have to do to negate it is to turn around (ignoring facestabs for the moment). You have the opportunity to defend yourself from a spy, if one gets in the position where he can backstab you it's because you weren't paying attention. With a sniper, all that determines whether or not you die is the sniper's skill, your skill doesn't even enter into the equation. That is why it is more annoying to get killed by a sniper than by any other class imo.

+1,
I hate Snipers for exactly that reason

I too hate snipers, for these reasons. And I don't play sniper very often at all anymore. But - if you look at it from an alternative point of view - a sniper can only kill you if he can see you, and aim at your head. Most of the maps have alternative routes etc. so if the sniper is busy doing other things it's ridiculously easy to sneak up on them as almost any class. Take for example badwater after capping the 1st point. Where do the snipers usually go? At the end of the long corridor near the spawn door. What don't you do? Go up the long corridor in front of them. Go to the roof instead and if you're almost any class you can jump/shoot down at them and kill them while they're still aiming along the corridor. I'm sure that most of the kills against me from a sniper are because I've walked into his line of fire. On the other side...im sure that most of my kills against snipers have been at close range because I've flanked them and/or jumped at them while they've been looking down their scope in the other direction.

Snipers
+ insta-kills for headshots
+ generally far away from the battle
+ a good sniper can kill medics or other key team players easily
- have to charge to insta-kill
- reduced FOV & view area when zoomed
- weak class
- requires line of sight
- a more skill orientated class
- fairly little teamplay

[Power]

I will only play sniper from now on.*

*as soon as I get my new PSU that is...

[Nineblade]

[CruelCow]

Oh boy, seems like I've opened quite a can of worms here.

Now I'm not trying to say snipers are overpowered - they're not, especially when you look at teams with many snipers.
I'm also not saying they don't require skill: they require a very limited skillset (pretty much chosing the right position and aim), but the skills themselves (namely aiming) are required and important.

@Deadly: Yeah, but neither demo, engi or even a heavy+medic pair could block that route at badwater pretty much single handed.

[TheBeau]

[DeadlyAvenger]

@Deadly: Yeah, but neither demo, engi or even a heavy+medic pair could block that route at badwater pretty much single handed.

I'd be inclined to disagree for that example for a demoman as the corridor is so narrow that it would only need half a dozen stickies to stop anyone from being able to get through.

[Teatime]

Good snipers like TP (or these days Chaosfox or Ivelknivel) are in the game so that Heavies like Junta are thinking twice before turning a corner.

For all the instantkill power I think there is only a small percentage of snipers which actually deserve to be dreaded, the rest is the usual mixed bag which might kill me a few times but never put any fear into me.

I'm more annoyed by wanna-be sniper superstars which waste time and resources and therefor are helping more the enemy team than there own (like me, the few times I play sniper )

[Teatime]

My guts are saying the engy update starts this week!
...















(Of course my guts have shit for brains)

[Junta]

Good snipers like TP (or these days Chaosfox or Ivelknivel) are in the game so that Heavies like Junta are thinking twice before turning a corner.

For all the instantkill power I think there is only a small percentage of snipers which actually deserve to be dreaded, the rest is the usual mixed bag which might kill me a few times but never put any fear into me.

I'm more annoyed by wanna-be sniper superstars which waste time and resources and therefor are helping more the enemy team than there own (like me, the few times I play sniper )

I agree. The genuinely good snipers are talented and help their team. Although I despise being killed by a sniper, I don't begrudge them their kill.

I do take exception to maps that give you no choice - a prime example is the first stage of Goldrush where you *have* to enter a pretty deadly sniping zone to push the cart. It feels worse because it's never a lone sniper threat that you face, it's a sentry gun, soldier, pyro and demo defence too. That's when sniper feels at it's worst, when it's locking down an area and there is no way to defeat it easily.

In terms of snipers who don't help their team, I do feel sorry for them. They have to learn their craft and everyone will be crappy to start with. I do however, agree that there is a limit. There has to be a point where a player says "this isn't working and we're losing really badly". Sadly, some of the idiot snipers just keep popping away, not killing, helping or wanting to get the team winning. A prime example is a sniper who sits and ignores the cart even though standing on it will either win the round or defend against that last push.

To sum up: I hate snipers who ignore their team, this goes for any class, but snipers (and spies) are unique in that they can stand off from a fight and choose not really to intervene, help or influence. They also can ignore the team objective and defer to their team mates to do the job. The good snipers make an impact, and even throw some Jarate etc. The best snipers also communicate, and I notice that even the *good* snipers on our server are really not very vocal. I wonder why sniper is generally a mute class?

[Power]

Moan all you want and yes I don't hit as many people in the head as I'd like, but you all LOVE my jarate.

[Rct33]

Good snipers like TP (or these days Chaosfox or Ivelknivel) are in the game so that Heavies like Junta are thinking twice before turning a corner.

For all the instantkill power I think there is only a small percentage of snipers which actually deserve to be dreaded, the rest is the usual mixed bag which might kill me a few times but never put any fear into me.

I'm more annoyed by wanna-be sniper superstars which waste time and resources and therefor are helping more the enemy team than there own (like me, the few times I play sniper )

I agree. The genuinely good snipers are talented and help their team. Although I despise being killed by a sniper, I don't begrudge them their kill.

I do take exception to maps that give you no choice - a prime example is the first stage of Goldrush where you *have* to enter a pretty deadly sniping zone to push the cart. It feels worse because it's never a lone sniper threat that you face, it's a sentry gun, soldier, pyro and demo defence too. That's when sniper feels at it's worst, when it's locking down an area and there is no way to defeat it easily.

In terms of snipers who don't help their team, I do feel sorry for them. They have to learn their craft and everyone will be crappy to start with. I do however, agree that there is a limit. There has to be a point where a player says "this isn't working and we're losing really badly". Sadly, some of the idiot snipers just keep popping away, not killing, helping or wanting to get the team winning. A prime example is a sniper who sits and ignores the cart even though standing on it will either win the round or defend against that last push.

To sum up: I hate snipers who ignore their team, this goes for any class, but snipers (and spies) are unique in that they can stand off from a fight and choose not really to intervene, help or influence. They also can ignore the team objective and defer to their team mates to do the job. The good snipers make an impact, and even throw some Jarate etc. The best snipers also communicate, and I notice that even the *good* snipers on our server are really not very vocal. I wonder why sniper is generally a mute class?

You can go from decent snipers who help the team and focus on other snipers (first) then medics and such and they are good at what they do but then you get that sniper who takes the piss (Pun?), for example there was a sniper with huntsman who did not aim above the enemy when shooting so every shot he took hit the ground, what goes on in their mind I do not know.

[Teatime]

Okay, TF2 on Mac, so what ... ?
Will we finally get our engy update?

For the record: I was ninja'd by Cap in the Shoutbox

[Zarf]

Okay, TF2 on Mac, so what ... ?
Will we finally get our engy update?

My thoughts exactly. Nobody cares about Mac, valve are trolling.