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October 2025

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Uzz919 (29), FlowingEye (36), Karthus (35)
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Upcoming Birthdays: Uzz919 (29), FlowingEye (36), Karthus (35)

[Karthus]

That fix was needed.

(and no thats not ironic or something)

[Hzza]

otherwise i am being trolled so hard

[LtMama]

Yea, played demo in a mix tonight, and pipes were pretty much useless. So glad they fixed this before tomorrow

[Zarf]

jesus christ i wish people would have tried it before it was fixed. the demoman has not been overpowered for a long time but whiners have been around forever

Sorry, been having PTSD flashbacks to Cheez and his 8 dominations as demo on badlands a couple of nights ago.

[egg]

jesus christ i wish people would have tried it before it was fixed. the demoman has not been overpowered for a long time but whiners have been around forever

Sorry, been having PTSD flashbacks to Cheez and his 8 dominations as demo on badlands a couple of nights ago.

it's cheez who needs nerfing not the demoman

[Hzza]

it's cheez who needs nerfing not the demoman

That I think, more then anything. Maybe BazAv and Beau (or whatever he's calling himself these days) too.

[egg]

it's cheez who needs nerfing not the demoman

That I think, more then anything. Maybe BazAv and Beau (or whatever he's calling himself these days) too.

Perhaps we should remove their W key ?

[Chaos]

My case for the Demoman not boing OP-
1) Pipes take 2 direct hits to kill a 125-200hp class generally. Same as close up rockets but pipes are a lot harder to land than most other projectiles. If you miss your pipe, it's a LOT less likely to do splash damage to your target. Unless they chase the thing and wait for it to explode, you're gonna hit somebody else at most! Pipes take a LOT of practice and skill, so it's only fair that they have a big damage payoff right?
2)Stickies are a little OP if you take the skill arguement. But their main intended use was area denial and traps. It takes 2 stickes to kill most classes unbuffed, buffed usually 3. So a sticky trap of 4 stickies is a good trap. That means it takes a while to setup traps in a fast moving game and needing more would mean you would take longer, and would only be able to control one exit, meaning you're constantly flanked and killed by classes with hitscan weapons. so 8x100+/-hp damage stickies are about right IMO. Most places have more than 2 entrances, so can still be flanked anyway. If you know the demo is there, go the other way!
3) Again, offensive stickies take practice. Learning about and how to do techniques is hard work, so the damage payoff is just.

[Teatime]

My case for the Demoman not boing OP-
1) Pipes take 2 direct hits to kill a 125-200hp class generally. Same as close up rockets but pipes are a lot harder to land than most other projectiles. If you miss your pipe, it's a LOT less likely to do splash damage to your target. Unless they chase the thing and wait for it to explode, you're gonna hit somebody else at most! Pipes take a LOT of practice and skill, so it's only fair that they have a big damage payoff right?
2)Stickies are a little OP if you take the skill arguement. But their main intended use was area denial and traps. It takes 2 stickes to kill most classes unbuffed, buffed usually 3. So a sticky trap of 4 stickies is a good trap. That means it takes a while to setup traps in a fast moving game and needing more would mean you would take longer, and would only be able to control one exit, meaning you're constantly flanked and killed by classes with hitscan weapons. so 8x100+/-hp damage stickies are about right IMO. Most places have more than 2 entrances, so can still be flanked anyway. If you know the demo is there, go the other way!
3) Again, offensive stickies take practice. Learning about and how to do techniques is hard work, so the damage payoff is just.

TL'DR version: Demo requires practice = isn't OP

[egg]

My case for the Demoman not boing OP-
1) Pipes take 2 direct hits to kill a 125-200hp class generally. Same as close up rockets but pipes are a lot harder to land than most other projectiles. If you miss your pipe, it's a LOT less likely to do splash damage to your target. Unless they chase the thing and wait for it to explode, you're gonna hit somebody else at most! Pipes take a LOT of practice and skill, so it's only fair that they have a big damage payoff right?
2)Stickies are a little OP if you take the skill arguement. But their main intended use was area denial and traps. It takes 2 stickes to kill most classes unbuffed, buffed usually 3. So a sticky trap of 4 stickies is a good trap. That means it takes a while to setup traps in a fast moving game and needing more would mean you would take longer, and would only be able to control one exit, meaning you're constantly flanked and killed by classes with hitscan weapons. so 8x100+/-hp damage stickies are about right IMO. Most places have more than 2 entrances, so can still be flanked anyway. If you know the demo is there, go the other way!
3) Again, offensive stickies take practice. Learning about and how to do techniques is hard work, so the damage payoff is just.

+1 Agree completely ^^

[discordance]

My case for the Demoman not boing OP-
1) Pipes take 2 direct hits to kill a 125-200hp class generally. Same as close up rockets but pipes are a lot harder to land than most other projectiles. If you miss your pipe, it's a LOT less likely to do splash damage to your target. Unless they chase the thing and wait for it to explode, you're gonna hit somebody else at most! Pipes take a LOT of practice and skill, so it's only fair that they have a big damage payoff right?
2)Stickies are a little OP if you take the skill arguement. But their main intended use was area denial and traps. It takes 2 stickes to kill most classes unbuffed, buffed usually 3. So a sticky trap of 4 stickies is a good trap. That means it takes a while to setup traps in a fast moving game and needing more would mean you would take longer, and would only be able to control one exit, meaning you're constantly flanked and killed by classes with hitscan weapons. so 8x100+/-hp damage stickies are about right IMO. Most places have more than 2 entrances, so can still be flanked anyway. If you know the demo is there, go the other way!
3) Again, offensive stickies take practice. Learning about and how to do techniques is hard work, so the damage payoff is just.

TL'DR version: Demo requires practice = isn't OP

But the fact that he has a higher skill ceiling than a lot of classes makes him OP in the right hands. I don't really think demo needs heavily nerfing but I do think he could use some tweaks to make him slightly less horrible in the hands of someone who spends far too much time playing him .

[Chaos]

as opposed to spy?

**looks at a certain mean bovine**

[discordance]

cruels just this awesome distraction that keeps demos and scouts on their toes. hes sexy

[claws]

As disco says. I hesitate to wade into this debate yet again but can't help myself(!). Whether it's overpowered is a totally different thing to skill ceiling. In my mind there's no question demo is the most powerful class, and when you see a top class demo wander on to a pub server and rape everyone, I suspect he could do with a tiny nerfette. I totally accept it's hard to play/etc. but I wouldn't protest a small percentage reduction.

Mostly this discussion comes down to how you want the casual/pro balance to be in TF2 - at one end of the scale you have the crits/etc stuff which equalises skill, on the other those who want awesome players to be able to dominate the entire enemy team. It's a separate topic, but I'd be curious to know how people think this has changed throughout tf2's life.

[LtMama]

My case for the  -

Ph!xed