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[egg]

Just got the quote, Ouch, didn't expect it to be quite that much, I have issues with the server hardware price.

Labour
1 1 day to Setup and installation of server and related software            £250
2 1 day 2 engineers to Upgrade operating system on existing machines £500
1 1 day to attach machines to new server and migrate data                  £250
1 1 day on site trouble shooting post installation                                 £250
Subtotal                                                                                        £1250

Server
1 Fujitsu Seimens Primergy Econel 100 S2 Server                              £825.65
Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200 2.5Ghz 1024MB 1GB DDR2 Memory, DVD
Rom, 10/100/1000 Network card ATI ES1000 Graphics and redundant
power supply
1 Fujitsu Seimens 2GB DDR2 ECC 800 Memory                                   £50
1 Fujitsu Seimens 1GB DDR2 ECC 800 Memory                                   £30
4 Fujitsu Seimens 500GB Simple Swap SATA II Harddrives                  £376
1 Fujitsu Seimens 1X1Gbit PCIe Pro/1000PT Network Card                    £73
1 Fujitsu Seimens SP 3y onsite service next business day return 5x9   £125
1 APC 1500V Smart Uninterruptable power supply £385 £385
6 Buffallo 320GB mini station portable hardrives for backup purposes   £444
Subtotal                                                                                       £2308.65

Server Software
1 Microsoft Windows Small Business Server Standard Edition               £560
Includes:
1 x Windows Server 2008 64Bit
1x Exchange 2007 (email)
5x user Cals
2 Microsoft Windows Small Business Server Standard 5 additional Cals  £440
Note: Windows smaill business server 2008 does not include ISA firewall
software, as such we recommend the following router with a highend
firewall built in to protect your network
1 Dratek Vigor 2820 ADSL Router                                                     £140
Subtotal                                                                                        £1140

Workstation Software
6 Microsoft Windows Vista Business Upgrades with service pack 1       £1002
To upgrade xp home and vista basic machines to comply with server
6 Microsoft Windows Vista Software Assurance                                   £582
Entitles upgrade to new versions of Windows 7
11 F-Secure small business Suite (antivirus) with 1 year maintenance    £308
Subtotal                                                                                        £1892

Total                                                                                             £6590.65

Time to rip to shreds...

1st Im sorry but any company that 'recommends' a dratek router firewall, knows absolutely fuck all about security lol

2nd Vista in the business place... sorry but its never proved its worth in a business environment.

3rd F-Secure.... could do better

4th Backup to USB Disk... not advisable

5th Only 4 drives in server? what config they using??? standard practice is for 5, 2 in mirror for OS, 3 in Raid5 for Data......

6th  Now I don't know siemens hardware but why does a server need an ATI graphics card??? Sounds like its a high end desktop not a fully redundant server platform.

EDIT: Just read that they recommend the firewall as ISA is not preloaded in SBS.... THEY SHOULD RECOMMEND A FIREWALL ANYWAY lmao

[Chaos]

That sounds awful.. even I know more than that and I'm far from a networker..

That ES1000 ATI graphics chip is onbaord, not a card EGG.. itll do the job (that job is enough graphics power with low power consumption)

I would also skip vista for business computers.. stick with XP and youll have a lot more security and reliability
Vista is good for gaming, but its not that reliable.. so stick with whats proven!
You should also be able to run vista computers off an xp server, so paying for those upgrades is redundant...

Whats the difference between hot swap drives and normal drives? surely the only difference is a caddy that they come in? for the money they are asking for 4 500gb drives (£376) you could get 4 proven 1TB drives (WD Caviar Green) and some caddies for them. Caddies would usually be supplied with the rackmount case/case they are supposed to be in anyway!

Whats the point in this server if your going to be using 320gb usb drives? If your using those, why not just swap data off them? so scratch those as they're useless! if you want some portable storage, it can be done better and cheaper than that!

I would run from this company, dont take them up on this quote..
it all just smells funny to me


The UPS is a must of course

[egg]

As said I dont know seimens hardware I usually deal with HP, and sometimes Dell, which usually use intel onboard , and to be honest as long as it can handle 800x600 VGA graphics it'll do as graphics should be usually handled client side (unless your running TS / Citrix / VM which then will be cpu i believe )

I agree with Chaos XP Pro is what you'll need to configure PCs to a domain.

Hot swap means you can take out disks if they need replacing without having to power off machine.  Most SATA drives do this nowadays, but SAS would be the way forward in a server.

Im guessing the USB drives are for backup.... Which is bad.  Tape is far cheaper and more reliable, its just slower, and harder to access... But saying that most tape drives are bloody quick nowadays.

UPS... ofc

[egg]

Their first quote should have been an all dancing all singing solution to last years, and then adjusted spec to suit your budget.

If this is their'complete' solution its bloody crap.

Forgot to say before but they mention nothing about the Network back bone... I'm guessing they are using the draytek for it.... does this do 1 gbit?

[Chaos]

Hot swap means you can take out disks if they need replacing without having to power off machine.  Most SATA drives do this nowadays, but SAS would be the way forward in a server.

I know that. But why should a 500gb sata drive cost so much?
I could be wrong but im sure it just has some specific mounting equiptment on in thats tooless and easy to swap out? you can get that for a LOT less!
Isnt the RAID config done by the PCI-x card?

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Also, +1 for tapes and SAS

[egg]

Hot swap means you can take out disks if they need replacing without having to power off machine.  Most SATA drives do this nowadays, but SAS would be the way forward in a server.

I know that. But why should a 500gb sata drive cost so much?
I could be wrong but im sure it just has some specific mounting equiptment on in thats tooless and easy to swap out? you can get that for a LOT less!
Isnt the RAID config done by the PCI-x card?

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Also, +1 for tapes and SAS

Yes probably the caddy as it will be front loaded HDD (I assume).  Also if its a siemens branded HDD they will charge more... Like cisco use bog standard SDRAM in a lot of there kit and charge 10000000% for the privaledge (but you have to use cisco to keep warranty : lol

No the PCIe card is a normal NIC.  It will be configured into a Team with the onboard NIC for redundancy ( I assume)

Raid controller (I hope at the very least) is an onboard chipset.... I hope to god they aren't using software RAID.  The only thing I can think of is that they either use all 4 disks in a raid5, or two pairs of mirrors which is shit tbh.


Whats lacking is the detail.... It's ok giveing a kit list but where are the details on configuration?

[Millicent Bystander]

Just had someone in (www.hdgnet.com) who seemed to really know what they were talking about, suggested a leased Unix server (with online backup) for a fraction of the cost of any other quotes.  Waiting for the full quote....

[Millicent Bystander]

Finally got a decent quote, I was impressed by this company www.hdgnet.com

Good to meet you yesterday, I'm hoping our more realistic approach struck a chord.

I believe your biggest issue is the server currently being used, as XP Home enforces a limit on the number of incoming network connections.  XP Pro offers more but would still be taxed by your set up but moving to something like Small Business Server is excessive.  The set up cost and ongoing support requirements do not match your needs.

I would recommend our "Peace of Mind - Small Business" package at £600 plus VAT per year.  This provides:

·         Onsite, fully managed 500GB server

·         Fully serviced - no repair or support costs for the server

·         Daily backup to remote server

·         Eset NOD32 Antivirus on the server and discounted antivirus available for every PC connected

·         Callout discount - 15% off our labour rate for calls to every PC connected

Each server is custom built to the client's requirements.  In this case we would put in a more powerful set of kit than usual, with a RAID-5 NAS box for the storage plus a PC alongside to provide online backup and a means of accessing the system for remote management.

Because the server setup will require two network ports, I would ask that you invest in a simple 16-port ethernet switch.  At £35 plus VAT this will provide enough ports for now as well as the possibility to expand if required.  For example, future shared printers may require extra network ports, or the wired network may be extended to the offices on the same floor / wall as the main office.

When setting up the server and router, I would come in and spend a day (probably with a colleague) going through each PC on the network.  As well as configuring it to access the new server, we would also carry out some housekeeping, optimisation and configuration checks to ensure you are getting the most out of your systems.  This would be at a cost of £300 plus VAT.

Therefore, your initial / first year cost would be £935 plus VAT.

The second and following years would be £600 plus VAT per year at our current rates.  Obviously any requirement to adjust the rate would be discussed with you first!  Given that most servers would need to be replaced every 3-5 years, we believe this makes us a very attractive and tax efficient option.

I believe you should have no problem with continuing to use your homeplugs.  However, should the need arise, it would be relatively simple to extend the wired network at least along the first floor on the same side of the building.  We could even provide the cable for your existing staff to lay and then come in and wire in the sockets to really minimise your cost.
 

I mentioned the option to replace AVG on the current PCs with our product of choice.  We would recommend Eset NOD32 Antivirus.  For 9 PCs for one year the RRP is £164.97 plus VAT but we could do that for £120 plus VAT.  You would find the PCs run faster with NOD32 than AVG, as well as being more 'license friendly'.  However, there is no obligation to take this option.

We also touched on the Draytek router that offers the ability to use two broadband connections, or one broadband and one 3G connection to offer some redundancy in your network connection.  Using the Draytek Vigor 2820n - http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/vigor2820.html - you would also have a Draft-N wireless network available.  This would cost £150 plus VAT and could be set up at the same time as the server install at no extra cost.

Alternatively, as you will be using a separate network switch, you could have some 'manual' redundancy just by ensuring your two ADSL routers are configured with the same IP settings and a longer cable to be able to unplug the switch from one and plug it into the other.  Simple but effective!

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to get in touch.

Kind regards,

Jonathan.

[Junta]

"Fully serviced - no repair or support costs for the server"

You need to be CLEAR exactly what this means - for the life of the server? or the life of your contract? One month? Two months?

Where is the remote server? What is the privacy policy if overseas?

[Millicent Bystander]

"Fully serviced - no repair or support costs for the server"

You need to be CLEAR exactly what this means - for the life of the server? or the life of your contract? One month? Two months?

Where is the remote server? What is the privacy policy if overseas?

I assume the life of the server is for however long we keep paying for the support

The remote server is located in their offices in Herne Bay (about 10 miles away).  It's a newish company (about 2 years old) but they have office of fair trading certification and good liability insurance.

[egg]

"Fully serviced - no repair or support costs for the server"

You need to be CLEAR exactly what this means - for the life of the server? or the life of your contract? One month? Two months?

Where is the remote server? What is the privacy policy if overseas?

We offer fully managed services and this basically includes support for software and hardware faults, and change requests.

With some savvy sofwtare technical staff this is fairly easy, as you use warranty for the hardware, just needs carepacks to bought which cover the server for 3 years at a time.... and these are always renewable until the hardware is too old.  (HP I believe cover hardware for 5 years after they stop making it anyway ) which will be included in the cost to milly

Remote backup (and DR) is currently the 'in thing' with backup solutions.  Using the right product can mean downtime is reduced to as little as 20 minutes, in the event of your local servers going completely 't1ts up'.

Although no massive detail is given, they are a lot more convincing than the first lot

[Millicent Bystander]

He did go into a lot (ie I only understood half of it) of detail when he came to price up.  I told him to make it simple for my boss.

Have told them to go ahead, it is £5000 cheaper than the other any quote after all.