next »

[Please Support Us!]

Please Support Us!

Please help keep (=WDG=) alive

• Server rules
• Forum rules
• Join us
  
• Clan members
• About the clan
• Server stats
• WDG YouTube Channel
• WDG Downloads
• IRC Webchat

Steam groups:

• WDG community
• WDG clan group
• WDG Battlelog Platoon

Our allies:

• [NuB] TF2 clan
• Velocity Gamers Hub
• Destination Gamer

GoG Links:

• Wix Discord
• Wix IRC channel

TF2 Links:

• Official TF2 Blog
• TF2 Steam Forum
• The Fort 2

October 2025

Mo	Tu	We	Th	Fr	Sa	Su
		1	2	3	4	5
6	7	8	9	10	11	12
13	14	15	16	17	18	19
20	21	22	23	24	25	26
27	28	29	30	31
	Birthdays
Chaos (40)
	Upcoming Events
Upcoming Birthdays: Chaos (40)

[Millicent Bystander]

We have 7 PCs (Edit, actually 9 PCs) at of varying degrees of obsolescence on a network that was originality set up for 2 PCs.  We have been using a local company called Up and Running that, in my view have not done a proper job, probably due to my boss not knowing anything about PCs and unwilling to listen to anyone.

He has now concluded that he needs to throw some money at the network and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any decent company in the NE Kent area that can do a review of the system, make an easily understandable report of what needs doing at a reasonable price.

[Junta]

Hmm... beware that this sort of exercise is normally an excuse for a big bill for consultancy.

That said, networking SHOULD be done properly. I've seen one client charged for a completely wireless network for 12 machines. This wasn't a good idea because of the nature of the network and the software running on it (high bandwidth transfers were required).

Wireless is a cheap and cheerful option - but watch out for it being touted as the answer to all the problems. It is slower than cabled networks and connection drop-outs can happen if reception is poor etc.

Cabling costs, servers and network cards also come into it, as well as the protocol being used (i.e. can't just assume that Windows networking is in use, some people still use Novell).

[Millicent Bystander]

In the main office there are 3 PCs and a laptop, 2 running XP, 2 running vista, 1 of the XP PCs has the main files everyone uses on an ancient hard drive.  I think they are all wired except for the laptop.  

There is a homeplug going to 4 more PCs running XP in varying locations and this seems to work surprisingly well.  I think the main problem is connecting to the main files are so slow.

I'm sure any competent network engineer could do something given a day and no interruptions.  Up and Running are now saying we need a proper server and it will cost thousands (which we could find but I'm pretty sure is not necessary).

[Junta]

If file access is slow, you're probably talking about a cheap file server tbh. DELL have simple examples - you can even take a standard desktop and put Windows Server 2003 on it for a start. The software probably will cost more than the hardware! lol

The speed of one of your machines hosting the files is likely to be an issue - might not be network cable related.


http://configure.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=uk&cs=ukbsdt1&kc=305&l=en&oc=SV2T1051&s=bsd&sbc=pedge_t105

Note that a factory install of Windows Server 2008 is £500!!! lol... probably a little extra RAM and a cheaper Operating System might be better. Bigger HD needed.

In any event, I'm just trying to indicate that it isn't several thousand pounds to get one.

Note that I say all of this *without* proper understanding of what happens on your network, how heavy the use is (or will be) and what the future plan will be. This should ALL be considered prior to paying anybody for anything!

If you get a server, you can configure a Domain, protect file access and create a backup of your core files. The domain will allow user accounts to be created with roles and privileges. You can then consider the access to the files etc.

[Millicent Bystander]

Thanks for the help Junta, have now written a proper specification on what we need from the network and will be getting in someone who should know what they are doing.

I can now get back to doing what I should of finished this morning.

[Chaos]

why not make a file server? it can be done easily enough and doesnt have to cost much. You can get 2TB drives now for a quite good price. Set that up as the server (with a half decent mobo/cpu/ram config) and you should be good to go?
A propper server is as you said, "not necessary"
Now wheres my consultation fee?

[Zarf]

o/ Computer Networking student here

What are the usage patterns? what size are the files, how often are they accessed, how many people are simultaniously accessing files stored on the same drive? (this is a massive speed killer)

As mentioned above, a proper file server is advised, both for speed and data resiliency. Your current setup sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Networking wise, there's no reason not to cable everything up with gigabit ethernet, the switches and network cards are dirt cheap for a simple setup. If the laptop is also accessing large files, you'll want to get a draft n wireless access point and card for the laptop.

you can build a file server cheaply by recycling an old machine, throwing in a load of cheap disks and using http://www.freenas.org/ or http://www.openfiler.com/

If money isn't an object i can suggest some better stuff, but i have a feeling the above would be fine for your needs.
If the usage patterns involve a lot of simultanious accesses, I'd recommend the use of Solid State Drives to prevent a bottleneck.

[Chaos]

SSDs are getting better and better, but for a file server, I think you'd have to spend a lot of money on them to get some decent capacities. Maybe some fast Caviar Blacks (which are very good from my usage of them) would suit. Other than that, a mobo with a good SB chip that supports your ideal CPU and plenty of RAM should make it work just how you want it to

Oh and as its a server, how about using a Rack case instead of a normal tower?
That way, you could have a seperate HDD case and hot swap them.. Thats how Im doing it now
(the Rack also houses my DAW stuff.. NICE)

[Magathery]

Damm, wish I lived nearer to Kent now A box of 500 meters of network cable don't cost much. Trunking is cheep enough, as are the sockets. Get a crone tool and a cat 5 crimp whatsit for not manny pennys. A nice big fast hub thingy and hay presto. One wired network with expansion possabilities is yours. That sort of thing can be done and dusted in a couple of working days.

[Magathery]

As regards switches / hub things, nearly all of the customers I deal with have this 3Com Baseline Switch 2126-G number on site...

£115.60 inc VAT
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/109508

One of these will go into a night club or a coffee shop, along with up to 18 tills and a server PC. The tills themselfs are running Xp. As a rough guid we will have up to 4 tills using till one as a "master" ghost server thing. Then over 4 and up to 8 will run off something like a dell GX280 running Xp as a server. I forgot what is used abut mid way. I think it's a HP tower PC running SCSI drives off a PCI card, still on a XP platform. But higher up [more than 15 tills] then it's a monstrus HP server that takes two people to lift the damm thing running server 2003. Oh and about 2 and a half grand! EEP!!!

So I don't think your gonna need that much stuff realyfor your office. Your looking at about, what less than £500 in hardware and wires and the like. If you do it "in house" you get to put stuff where you like and at your own pace. You also save on a day or two's worth of labour.

Good luck fella

[Zarf]

Switch wise, just get the cheapest 16 port gigabit switch you can, they are all extremely reliable. You probably don't need an expensive smart or managed switch for your needs - though it's all budget dependant, if you had the cash for an SSD based file server that would be bottlenecking on gigabit, with a managed switch you could set up trunking and combine multiple gigabit lines to your server.

SSD's are getting pretty reasonable in price now, Intel should be releasing its 32nm based ones in the next couple of weeks, which will be cheaper and faster than anything out now.  I'm guessing you only have a couple of hundred GB data at most on the current old hard drive, so SSD's are a viable option (the intels are reportedly coming out at around £240 for a 160GB drive).

There's not that much point in going rack mounted for a single server - the servers are more expensive, and noisy, and you need to buy a rack to put it in. If you've got the cash though it's nice to have redundant PSU's.

[Junta]

Damm, wish I lived nearer to Kent now A box of 500 meters of network cable don't cost much. Trunking is cheep enough, as are the sockets. Get a crone tool and a cat 5 crimp whatsit for not manny pennys. A nice big fast hub thingy and hay presto. One wired network with expansion possabilities is yours. That sort of thing can be done and dusted in a couple of working days.

Tell Milli what your hourly rate is Rippy? A bag of chips and copping a feel in the stationary cupboard?

[Magathery]

Too right. But the important question is who's cupping whom?

[Millicent Bystander]

What a pity we have no stationary cupboard.

here's the spec sheet I drew up

Current Network Specification
Currently all PCs outside the main office connect to the network via homeplugs.  All PCs are currently connected locally to Printer/scanners except Andy who has a laser printer. 
Traffic on the network will be pretty much limited to Word documents and photos
There are no backup facilities currently in place.

Main Office
Liz - 1 PC running Windows Vista, requires access to Roofline & Windowline files, internet, printer & scanner in main office.  (Athlon 64 5000, 1Gb RAM)

Donna – 1 Laptop running Windows Vista, requires access to Roofline, Windowline & account files, internet, colour printer & scanner in main office (Intel Core 2 Duo, 2Gb? RAM)

Public - (also used by Donna) – 1 PC running XP, used as the server. (AMD Sempron, 1Gb RAM, ancient 40gb? hard drive)

Rebecca – 1 PC running XP, requires access to Roofline & Windowline files, internet, window pricing software and printer & scanner in main office (newish Dell, 1Gb Ram?)

Andy’s (Windowline) Office
Andy – 1 PC running XP, requires access to Windowline files, internet, window pricing software and local printer. (newish Dell, 1Gb RAM?).  Not currently on the network.

Sales Office
John/Peter A – 1 PC running XP, requires access to internet and printer in main office. (AMD Duron 900, 512Mb RAM).  Not currently on the network.

Peter Warden’s Suite
Stacy – 1 PC running Vista, requires access to Roofline files, internet, local printer and scanner (Spec TBC)

Peter W – 1 PC running XP, requires access to Roofline, Windowline and account files, internet, printer, scanner and internet.  (AMD Duron 1200, 512Mb RAM).

Trade Counter/ Showroom
Trevor – 1 PC running XP, requires access to Roofline and Windowline files, internet, window pricing software, local colour printer, scanner & fax. (Intel Core 2 Duo, 2Gb RAM).  Not currently able to access public.

Showroom – No PC but needs network connection

Proposed Server Spec
Intel Pentium Dual Core E6300, Gigabyta GA-73PVM-S2 Nforce Motherboard with Geforce Graphics & RAID, 4Gb DDR2 800 Corsair RAM, 2 x WD Caviar 500Gb, 7200rpm Hard Drives, SATA DVD-RW, 500w Hi-Power PSU, Midi Tower Case

[Junta]

Are the showrooms and the offices in the same physical building? By that I mean that the assumption would be cabling for all PC's needing to be networked?

If you are looking to control user access to files based on groups and permissions, then a domain controller is ideal (i.e. a server that controls the domain, the computers and devices connected to it and the access that people or groups will have).

Domains are good for sharing resources like files and printers (or scanning devices even). You can also control user accounts with privileges (i.e. deny or grant  access to a specific folder for specific people or groups of people). Also ideal place to implement a backup solution too.

Domains also allow you to enforce a "group policy" - for example, passwords MUST be of a specific strength, windows updates must be turned on for any PC connected to the domain and anti-virus software must be installed. Other examples of useful domain options is the ability to push standard software to the workstations without visiting each one. Our company network caters for Vista and XP client machines and has group policy that can push Sophos anti-virus software down to the client machines if they don't have it.

Your spec looks OK for a basic file server. As a rule, be generous with the hard disk space and a minimum of 2GB ram would be recommended for a very basic Windows Server.

Note that if this server were to take on other roles (i.e. Exchange e-mail server or web server) then the processor and RAM will be a limiting factor.

Forgot to mention - although servers can be specialist in terms of hardware or components, any network connected PC can be configured to be a domain controller with the right software. Windows networks also allow multiple domain controllers but only one will be the "PDC" or "Primary" domain controller within the domain.