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December 2025

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[egg]

Teatime you seem a fanboy for valve lol just admit its a crap new system, and they should have ironed out all the 'bugs' and put the trading system in from the start of the update....

or do what Robin Walker said

"We should have given all weapons from the start"

Also he says they are working these 'fixes' along side the next class update so we could be here for months getting these duplicate weapons.....

I don't think I'm a fanboy, I just have a lot of respect for a company which has over the years released a small number of great products (rather than a larger number of mediocre ones). They have made mistakes along the way, but IMHO those are small compared with the good stuff they've done. Also I applaud them for pushing the envelope rather than playing it save. That includes what they are doing with TF2.
I know a lot of people think different, but in general I think they are adding new and interesting layers to the game.

As for bugs: They happen. There's no such thing like a perfect (=error-free) application once it exceeds a certain size. People blame Valve for not having done enough testing. I can't judge about that. Perhaps they did or did not. Perhaps you can't catch certain bugs with small-scale in-house tests. Some things might only show when it's out in the open.

But if we look more closely on what we have here: It's a new system rewarding people items in more or less regular intervals. It appears to work for most people, it just doesn't quite work as it should. Frustrating? Sure.
Game-breaking? Hardly! End of the world? Apparently for some (*shrug*).

How long will it take for them to fix this mistake? I don't know. I doubt it will be months. This is an embarrassment for Valve and I assume they are working hard on fixing it. Once done it will be applied easily enough via Steam. How soon? Again, no idea. I just know that the update was released Friday. I guess most Valve employees had the weekend off (which I wholeheartly grant them) and by the time I write this it's early afternoon in the US. You want miracles: Join a religion 

You make a good point, true Valve are a good company and I'm not slating them in general, it's just the way they have updated TF2 as a whole with the latest changes being the worst so far (until they are fixed).

TF2 was a simple game, and very well balanced.  It took them how many years to develop it to that standard?  But they now throw new weapons in every couple of months and have wrecked the beautiful simplicity of the original game.  With these random drops they have now changed the entire way the game and there previous updates worked...

I believe it is game breaking the way its been done, hence me suggesting I may stop playing it (I already know of a few people who stopped playing it from the first of the character updates). Compare the original release of TF2 with the state of it now.... I bought the game with its simplicity, balance and teamplay being bang on the mark.  Now its over complex with new weapons, random weapon and special items drops (hats to begin with but what else?) and a trading system on the way....

Its almost like the updates (+free weekends at same time) are just cash cows... as they spent years getting it to release, but then release these updates every few months that need constant fixes, nerfs and boosts to keep the game on track.

I'm sure by the time they are done it will be a great game but maybe not due to the reasons I bought the game originally. Indeed it would be nice to know if the game they envisaged all those years ago included all this new stuff?, so did they release it unfinished? or are they just tinkering as they go?

edit: ps Valve haven't fixed the ach whoaring this way either... I have found a nice way to 'earn' (lol) the new weapons etc. by joining a never ending server and leaving it connected while I go off to do other stuff.  So no you dont have servers full of snipers and spies.... you have servers full of people not doing anything lol

[AmS]

Ok i tested it and i can confirm that disguising as friendly target drops a corpse of the disguised class. I was backstabed disguised as friendly pyro and left pyro body behind me.

[Karthus]

Ok i tested it and i can confirm that disguising as friendly target drops a corpse of the disguised class. I was backstabed disguised as friendly pyro and left pyro body behind me.

Yeah I tried that too, its actually a pretty good, if not better way to trick the enemy.

[Terror]

Ok i tested it and i can confirm that disguising as friendly target drops a corpse of the disguised class. I was backstabed disguised as friendly pyro and left pyro body behind me.

yeah, it's good that, because once a team get used to the fact you have the dead ringer they always double check, but they don't suspect a pyro to be a spy.....

[Brahms]

All of your complaints are valid, Egg, but very few of them can be objectively called bad, because for every person who hates the idea of item trading/complex systems/simple systems/bonk, there will be another who doesn't, and even if that person is outnumbered, it doesn't make him wrong. It'd be a shame if you stopped playing (I know I'd be sad) but Valve can't please everyone, all of the time.

[[ZiiP] Lazzars]

got the ambassador today after like 5 mins of playing

seems unlocks are very random indeed

[AmS]

You make a good point, true Valve are a good company and I'm not slating them.......

I still dont know why are some people so upset by new updates. Valve is giving out loads of new content for free. Every class update adds some new gameplay elements and strategies. I know that not everything included in these updates is perfect, but Valve is doing a great job and i'm sure they will do theyr best to get everything balanced again.

I'm sure by the time they are done it will be a great game but maybe not due to the reasons I bought the game originally. Indeed it would be nice to know if the game they envisaged all those years ago included all this new stuff?, so did they release it unfinished? or are they just tinkering as they go?

You got a point here, but there are still other options, if people want to play the original TF2 they can find some vanilla servers, no need to quit if they really like playing the game.

Like Brahms said Valve can't please everyone, all of the time, some people likes it and some does not, but if both sides can still somehow play the game the way they like it, there is really no need to quit.

[Teatime]

got the ambassador today after like 5 mins of playing

seems unlocks are very random indeed

Hmm, I assume random drops are not done clientside, but actually in the steam cloud. So I wonder if Valve is tweaking the system without us noticing, since it wouldn't result in clinet updates ....

[Chaos]

it would still need a slight (tiny) update to note the new changes.

[DeadlyAvenger]

got the ambassador today after like 5 mins of playing

seems unlocks are very random indeed

Hmm, I assume random drops are not done clientside, but actually in the steam cloud. So I wonder if Valve is tweaking the system without us noticing, since it wouldn't result in clinet updates ....

Or maybe the counter that decides when you get your next unlock depends on how long you've been playing the game *NOT* how long you've been on the server. So it doesn't reset when you quit etc. The fact he got it 5 minutes in is what is carried over from the last time he played.

Is it just me or is that a really simple answer than "steam cloud updates" or "hidden updates" ?? I'm sure lazzars has played more than 5 minutes since the update, or since getting tf2...

[Teatime]

TF2 was a simple game, and very well balanced.  It took them how many years to develop it to that standard?  But they now throw new weapons in every couple of months and have wrecked the beautiful simplicity of the original game.  With these random drops they have now changed the entire way the game and there previous updates worked...

I believe it is game breaking the way its been done, hence me suggesting I may stop playing it (I already know of a few people who stopped playing it from the first of the character updates). Compare the original release of TF2 with the state of it now.... I bought the game with its simplicity, balance and teamplay being bang on the mark.  Now its over complex with new weapons, random weapon and special items drops (hats to begin with but what else?) and a trading system on the way....

Was TF2 ever a simple game? Simple was Quake CTF with no classes and 9 weapons (or was it ten?). But TF2? 9 classes, 24 different weapons +  special abilities? I don't think so.
I'm under the impression that Valve is trying to evolve the game further. And a little try and error is part of evolution. Not everybody likes that, but so far I think they did a good job. Airblast, Natasha, Kritzkrieg all add useful and interesting layers to the game. I think Jarate is promising. I have no opinion on the new spy items and I'm not the best person to judge them. Heck, I even think Sandman is a useful addition, but I realize I'm part of a small minority there.

As for the way those items are given to the player: I don't care. I'm glad it's no longer coupled on stupid achievements. I enjoy playing the game and getting a present every now and then. I'm fine with that. But I support the idea of giving people the opportunity to get desired items more quickly.

As for people leaving the game: I have heard it all before. If Valve would decide to replace the team colors with yellow and green I'm sure some people would be threatening to leave.
If you no longer enjoy the game, fine. If you think the new weapons have destroyed the class balance, okay (I disagree, but everybody's entitled to an opinion). But if such a minor thing as this (bugged) random item drops gets you panties in a bunch then some time off might indeed be advisable.

[Chaos]

I think the sandman is usefull..
Doest mean I like being stunned though

[Teatime]

it would still need a slight (tiny) update to note the new changes.

Why? My understanding of the steam cloud is limited, but to my knowledge it stores all special items. So the awarding of new items would be based on the data within the cloud. The logic behind that (which item when) is probably done again by the cloud (or an attached application).
All what happens clientside is the notification, and that appears to be working
So changes would probably not affect the client.
Or am I misunderstanding the nature of the steam cloud?

[Teatime]

I think the sandman is usefull..
Doest mean I like being stunned though

I wonder if the reaction would be different if the sandman would have been part of the original layout of the game?
Before you say "no", allow me a (less than prefect) comparison: In L4D being pinned down (Smoker or Hunter) is an integral part of the game, leaving the player completely helpless, and he has to rely on his teammates to rescue him. In many ways this is far more drastic than being (temporarily) stunned. I'm sure nobody likes being pinned down, but people accept is. Now of course are those very different games, but still I wonder if it would have been different if TF2 had shipped with the Sandman.

PS: I also wonder if there's a relation between the gameplay experience of L4D then the idea of integrating a weapon like the Sandman into TF2. In L4D teamwork is - on a basic level - far more important, and the experience of helplessness and being helped by others serves to strengthen the bonds between the players (and let's face it: It works quite well, even with random teams). I wonder if Valve was trying to carry over some of that into TF2.

[Chaos]

Difference in L4D is that a teammate can remove the effect easily.
and that is the main theme behind L4D. Teamwork is what makes the game work

TF2 does require Teamwork but not in the same capacity. You usually have teams of 8+ and you dont need a whole team talking at once like L4D (infact, that would hinder the effectiveness of the team)

Teamwork in L4D enhances the being pinned effect, as your not waiting for some math system to work out when it should stop. Your waiting for your team to help you up. Whereas all a teammate can do in TF2 is watch laughing at the silly look of the stars running around your face

Its a bad point well made