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My CommunityForumGamingTeam Fortress 2Topic: Server Heavy Limit 3 --> 2?
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aquila
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« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2011, 07:31:41 PM »

Heavies down to 2?

Quote
Limit medics to two

Have been in a team with 5 scouts - plainly ridiculous - better limit them to 2.

Demomen - spam machines - limit them to 1.

Snipers - either too good or so bad the're a liability for their team - limit of 0.

etc.. etc...

Since when has predictability been the key to fun and adventure?  Undecided 
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« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2011, 07:39:34 PM »

Heavies down to 2?

Quote
Limit medics to two

Have been in a team with 5 scouts - plainly ridiculous - better limit them to 2.

Demomen - spam machines - limit them to 1.

Snipers - either too good or so bad the're a liability for their team - limit of 0.

etc.. etc...

Since when has predictability been the key to fun and adventure?  Undecided 


Never said I actually wanted any limits, just meant that if you're trying to prevent stalemates limiting medics would be more effective than limiting heavies.
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« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2011, 07:41:24 PM »

I wonder what would happen if someone made a "highlander" plugin, which only allowed there to be more than 1 of any class when there was over 9 players on the team.
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« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2011, 07:43:05 PM »

I wonder what would happen if someone made a "highlander" plugin, which only allowed there to be more than 1 of any class when there was over 9 players on the team.

You can easily set the class limits to 1 or less on all classes. Not a problem. Think you just get stuck at the class selection screen until you rage and disconnect.
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Zealos


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« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2011, 08:14:44 PM »

I think he means once there is more than 9, you can have 2 of each class?
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« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2011, 08:34:47 PM »

I would say I agree with leftism ~51%... I kinda agree, but then the other team should swap classes to compensate... dunno.

But I don't think it would be bad if the admins decided to give it a 2-3 week chance etc
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« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2011, 08:46:52 PM »

Okay, I didn't really want to join in on this discussion, but since this is one of my main classes, I better say something too.

First off, I'm against class limits in general, though I think teams with 5x of anything are doomed to fail, so there bound to be some restrictions. Secondly, I'm against the class limit of 2 for heavies, but I'm not against testing it for a while just to see the effects.

Now to why: in my opinion, the "might" of the heavy is misrepresented here by a scewed perspective on our server. Let's be clear: most heavies on our server are exceptionally good. Whatever you may bring to the table with maths, HP values, damage values, speed and so on - if you can't work it, you won't kill shit. It's the same basic principle that works for every class. Your class only becomes powerful, once you know how to utilize it's strengths and minimize the effects of its weaknesses.

True, in current form, there are several loadouts, that make playing heavy easier and which also remove some of the weaknesses of the heavy in some situations, but same goes for every class. I'm not going into detail here on purpose, because in the end we could do this discussion for pretty much every class. Yes, heavies are a pain in the ass to kill, but they are just a sitting duck with plenty of HP and if you get killed, well guess what, the general rule in this game is "Don't get shot".

I agree the annoyance (as with every other class) gets magnified by one or multiple medics on the heavy, but again, this is also valid for every other class (within reason, no one is going to pocket an engi, I suppose). The valid responses here are also heavies, medics, ubers and teamplay. They aren't invincible (at least not longer than 30 seconds, right, John? Wink) so just kill 'em.

Seriously, I would be all for this suggestion, if:

- we had much smaller teams
- heavy had no counter (kritz, sniper, spy, sentries, DEMOMEN, other heavies)

But neither is the case. Since I play demoman, I learned how easy it actually is to kill a heavy. You need to hit him three times to make him run, medic or no medic, if you are using stickies it's even easier (though I can't use stickies).

That said, I'm not against a trial period, but I will make sure then, that there are always two heavies on my team. Wink Not a warning, just a promise.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2011, 08:55:29 PM by Power » Logged
Junta
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« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2011, 08:55:30 PM »

Interesting to see where this is going (and thanks Comrade Power for some decent input there Wink)

Suppose this all points to a trial of the limits tbh Smiley ... as much as I don't like the idea personally, I will back democracy in action.... just be careful of the precedent that is being set here though Wink
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« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2011, 10:21:52 PM »

Let's just set everything to highlander and call it a day; won't that be more fun? Easier to do as well! Too much? set everything to 2 then! let people squabble about not being able to play classes they are good at, yay...

I'm not really impressed with the arguments here; if you can't take down a few heavies who are, of course, hard to take down by default, but are very very slow and short ranged, then you are painfully not concentrating fire or just evading them until you can (or aiming your spies and snipers at them). Remove them by making sure there is always a set low limit for them?

What other class limits do we have anyway? I'd like to make a wider opinion but can't remember them all (spy is 2 right?).
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« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2011, 11:06:33 PM »

Spy and sniper is 2, dunno about engi right now,  3 on the rest, I reckon
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« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2011, 11:16:26 PM »

just be careful of the precedent that is being set here though Wink

The precedent of letting the clan members decide how to run their own server was set along time ago m8.
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« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2011, 11:56:10 PM »

Yup - 3 on everything except snipers, spies and engineers.
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« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2011, 12:08:11 AM »

By the way...I'd like to point you to some of our previous discussions on classlimits etc. - a lot that explains why we put classlimits in place and how we've tweaked the limits etc. over the years etc.

http://www.wdgclan.co.uk/index.php?topic=2086.0
http://www.wdgclan.co.uk/index.php?topic=4111.60
http://www.wdgclan.co.uk/index.php?topic=4206.0
http://www.wdgclan.co.uk/index.php?topic=3757.0 (look at the date)

I dunno why I'm posting this, reminiscing time.
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« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2011, 04:29:12 AM »

While interesting to read again, I'm not sure if they apply:

#1 & #3 are in direct response to class updates
#2 is us just mucking about
#4 is an april fool's

This discussion is about a class being too strong, while class limits after updates usually help the team that is limited.
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Junta
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« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2011, 08:31:28 AM »

just be careful of the precedent that is being set here though Wink

The precedent of letting the clan members decide how to run their own server was set along time ago m8.
LOL indeed...since I helped instigate members votes all that time ago.

No, this is simply my bad choice of words. I mean the precedent of restricting class numbers to ever smaller values Wink maybe the debate should also widen to lessening the restrictions on some other classes too? Solly, demo or engy etc.

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