next »

[Please Support Us!]

Please Support Us!

Please help keep (=WDG=) alive

• Server rules
• Forum rules
• Join us
  
• Clan members
• About the clan
• Server stats
• WDG YouTube Channel
• WDG Downloads
• IRC Webchat

Steam groups:

• WDG community
• WDG clan group
• WDG Battlelog Platoon

Our allies:

• [NuB] TF2 clan
• Velocity Gamers Hub
• Destination Gamer

GoG Links:

• Wix Discord
• Wix IRC channel

TF2 Links:

• Official TF2 Blog
• TF2 Steam Forum
• The Fort 2

December 2025

Mo	Tu	We	Th	Fr	Sa	Su
1	2	3	4	5	6	7
8	9	10	11	12	13	14
15	16	17	18	19	20	21
22	23	24	25	26	27	28
29	30	31

[mr craig]

On another note. if someone is a cock for being too good then the game sucks. My opinion. dont be a cock

[egg]

On another note. if someone is a cock for being too good then the game sucks. My opinion. dont be a cock

Shintaz aint a cock (nice fella when you chat), but he is FAR too good for a public server.

[mr craig]

No offence but I am guessing he grew up on a pub. Learned the game on a pub. It could be thought as forgetting your roots. I never called him a cock was just saying in general

[TheBeau]

You misunderstood me Junta, although looking back at my post, I wasn't very clear.

I didn't mean attitudes or individual players, I meant why and the way it's played. I know some competitive players are dicks. Hell, the clan I'm in atm is full of them.

I've got no problem with the people who expect civility from others, it's the people who believe that the competitive scene is ruining tf2 or that the competitive scene is somehow bad for us all which really gets on my nerves.

The responses from Gonk and claws are the responses I expected from intelligent and reasonable players. (The rest of you are mutant maggots)

As for the anti-pro attitude stuff, that's 100% understandable.

What's not understandable, imo, are the people that say "oh tf2 is meant to have all nine classes played" or "oh tf2 is not supposed to be played like that" Bullshit. Competitive players play what makes the best competition, who are these pub players who think they can decide how the game is played for an entirely different audience? The ignorance of frankly both scenes can be astounding and I wanted to know if this was as common as I thought.

Apparently not, so far everyone who has posted has been logical and reasonable, it is good to know that you guys understand the competitive scene, even if you have no interest in it. It just makes me rage when I hear people complain about something they've never tried to understand.

@Scroggage: Excellent post, I must say I find the 6 v 6 games the best tf2 i've ever played as well.

EDIT: Shintaz is the best scout in Europe, well at least we was voted the best, I wouldn't know either way. Great things about players like that, is the fact they can attract the entire team. Someone who knows what he's talking about makes a better leader than most

[Burnalot]

Personally I really enjoy both the public and the competitive TF2 scenes. However, I'd say they are in two completely different ''spheres''.

Our clan (SAC) was formed with fun in mind. However, we began with the intention of playing matches under competition rules (both skirmishing and playing against friendly clans) and entering leagues.

Many people seem to believe that competitive TF2 sucks the fun out of the game, and that it is impossible to enjoy a serious match. This may be partially true, for example when you are losing horribly. However, it is perfectly possible to enjoy a serious match, especially when you get on with the rest of your team. Even if you lose, the idea is to go back and discuss what went wrong (as a group) so that you can improve your game next time.

As for the skill levels involved, I'd say that there are some highly skilled players in the WDG community, who are proficient in playing as and succeeding as their chosen classes. What seperates competitive and public TF2, in my opinion, is the ability to co-ordinate as a team under tense conditions. It is essential to utilise the individual skills of the players in your group to gain any success. Teamwork may be a part of the high quality public servers (such as WDG), but the teamwork needed in competitive play is of an entirely different calibre.


All in all, I'd say both forms of play have their merits, and I enjoy both equally but for different reasons. Competitive play seems to have been given a bad name due to some arrogant individuals (also sorry about the long post too).

[Brahms]

I'm waiting for Teatime to speak his piece on this.

I don't have much interest in competitive TF2, though I like to know it exists I don't have anything like the time to invest in it.  I like what people say about it basically being a different game, this is true.

I think when you say "Best tf2 I've ever played" you mean best comp tf2 you've ever played. The best pub tf2 you ever played probably enjoyed trying to spade Junta and bantering on the voice chat. They're totally different things. One is about tactics and precision and aim, and the other is just basically pissing around. And you prefer one of these things, you'll enjoy one of these "games" more.

Serious question though: How many comp TF2 players have a job?

[Burnalot]

Serious question though: How many comp TF2 players have a job?

I think there is a divide between those who play competitive TF2 when they have time (for example, myself) and those who play competitive TF2 as though it was their career.

You can still appreciate competitive TF2 without it dominating your entire life.

[Junta]

You misunderstood me Junta, although looking back at my post, I wasn't very clear.

A little, but my fault too mate - you have to understand that we get alot of questions from people asking why we don't compete.

In fact, we now have a few players aiming for a 6 v 6 ladder

As for matches, I like the 6 v 6 challenge of a match as there is *nothing* like it. However, I also find myself leading and tbh, I don't have the skill to lead a team week in, week out. I have basic tactics for basic maps and (at the moment) not enough time to improve this after work

As Scrog said, a match against even opposition is very rewarding (especially when the enemy is sporting no matter the result). We've been lucky with some great matches vs BFM, HAM and SAC.

My original post is not to say that I don't appreciate talent when I see it. TP is fantastic sniper, and I've been owned by Shintaz too - stunning display as a scout ... you know the best thing, you learn MORE playing these people if you can. Its like when reVert stalked our servers, you change your game because you have to. You also learn that there are simply some situations that you have to avoid or work around with help from the team.

And I'm learning when I play you too Basing... sneaky demo that you are (gg)

[Teatime]

Yes, I assume this is at least partially directed towards me.

I'm a bit reluctant to go into a full answer here because I have an article in my (virtual) drawer waiting to be polished and posted, which covers some of the questions you asked.

In a nutshell:
The 6vs6 format IMHO is one of several possible competitive formats.
6vs6 is a strong variation of TF2. It's NOT TF2 refined and polished to its essentials. It's NOT the diamond to the coal that is the basic design of TF2 with its nine classes and diverse maps. Quite frankly that kind of arrogant assumption bugs me.

I mentioned it before (and also mentioning it in my article in more detail) that back in TFC (which had a much higher spam factor and destructive power than TF2 due to the grenades) to my knowledge 8vs8 CTF was the primary format, which was able to make more use of almost all classes. I'm sure Highlander matches can be very competitive, too.

In short, I have no problem with competitive gameplay (though I have no particular interest in it), but I have a problem with the predominant format and it's self-conception of being the crown of TF-Evolution.

[TheBeau]

Yes, I assume this is at least partially directed towards me.

Not at all, your argument has solid reasoning and I can understand your opinion because you have strong evidence behind it. My original idea was to attempt to understand some of the seemingly mindless contempt for the competitive scene.

Again though, I must disagree with you. Perhaps the current format isn't the best, but is there a viable and equally as popular format? No, but why? Surely there is a reason other than "Oh because everyone else plays it".

Ironically, this thread has become de-railed (in a good way) and is getting a better discussion than can be expected of my first post. The main thing I was trying to grasp hold of was the seemingly anti-competition attitude I had seen all over other forums. However, I like the way this thread is going, so let's continue!

@Junta: How strange, even though you've killed me about 1,000,000 times I still haven't learnt that sticky jumping onto a full health heavy w/ medic is a bad idea!

EDIT: @Brahms: Nah mate. I'm all about competition (ironically, i've only started playing competitively this last month or so). Pub play atm is so bad I tend to avoid it at all costs. WDG imo, is NOT a pub. It is an uber pub, I don't know any other server which such a interesting and fresh personality and skill level. However, when you win or lose on WDG, it means nothing. Hard to be motivated when you know the two outcomes are the same. Competition is the ultimate way to enjoy anything which involves a contest and I have an addiction to competition and winning. Of course that's not to say I win all the time, but whatever I do, I try to win. Imo, winning is the reward for patience and hard work. Therefore competitive tf2 is the best i've played because it's the most rewarding, pub play no matter how fun, can't compare to the competitive pressures and play.

[Teatime]

You mean I should have added that I think a lot of competitive players are arrogant, ignorant assholes with their head way too far up their arse to consider there was anything else worth even looking at except TF2 (or women, should they ever get so lucky ...) and on pub servers usually display an attitude which should put their "career" reputation to shame?

I could do that, too ...

[Nineblade]

Serious question though: How many comp TF2 players have a job?

Me


This interesting thread deserves a well reasoned, intelligent and articulate reply so I'm not going to say anything.

I agree about Shintaz - he's an excellent scout who I've pwned regularly

[Guilt is a rope... etc]

As a newcomer to the online gaming scene, it seems odd to me that there is such a gulf between competetive play and pub/fun play. Kinda like having the premiership and then a kick about in the park.

I would have thought there would be enough players to support a thriving middle ground with perhaps less focus on 6v6, kinda of a sunday league system.

It appears to me that to even get on the lowest rung of the tf2 competative ladder you need serious dedication, skill and most of all time, I think this gulf is what drive the negative attitudes on both sides, its a shame as I think theres many (myself included) who would like a fun but competative league in say highlander format without the hangups.

[claws]

Also agree about tactics playing an important part but there is a lot more skill to it than you first think. :-

Player called reptile (solly): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG4k6rI0vtU

Yeah, I know about reptile/etc ... although I think there are better and that video is more about crits and ubers tbh. Either way we'll agree there are players who are crazy good! But I agree with Terror, at the 'lower' levels of competitive play people of 'our' skill level could compete. It's just that we play with a different ethos. I like to play as well as I can and try to be a team player, but I don't care to take that next step - I would like to see more teamwork and smart play, but not enough to 6v6 on a regular basis.

Also:I don't get the competitive hate. I've seen one or two 'omg i pwned u' types, but most of the competitive players I've met have been decent people. It's just that they play with a mindset to improve and they take it seriously. I'm fine with that. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I hate this 'us and them' mentality. I can only speak from my own experience, but I felt Teatime's comment was a bit of a low blow - I'd be interested in an article as to why you feel so strongly about them.

[Teatime]

Serious question though: How many comp TF2 players have a job?

Wait a minute! I was under the impression child's labor is illegal in the UK?