next »

[Please Support Us!]

Please Support Us!

Please help keep (=WDG=) alive

• Server rules
• Forum rules
• Join us
  
• Clan members
• About the clan
• Server stats
• WDG YouTube Channel
• WDG Downloads
• IRC Webchat

Steam groups:

• WDG community
• WDG clan group
• WDG Battlelog Platoon

Our allies:

• [NuB] TF2 clan
• Velocity Gamers Hub
• Destination Gamer

GoG Links:

• Wix Discord
• Wix IRC channel

TF2 Links:

• Official TF2 Blog
• TF2 Steam Forum
• The Fort 2

December 2025

Mo	Tu	We	Th	Fr	Sa	Su
1	2	3	4	5	6	7
8	9	10	11	12	13	14
15	16	17	18	19	20	21
22	23	24	25	26	27	28
29	30	31

[Millicent Bystander]

I've notice flame damage on cloaked spys isn't all that much, I set one of fire, 2-3 second blast and then it took 4 shotgun blasts to take him down.

I must admit demomen take down more of my sentries than spys.  Spys are just far more annoying, espcially if they backstab you then sap your sentries leaving you watching impotently as they count down to destruction.

[Teatime]

Granted, I'm just a mediocre engy, but right now playing engy is very frustrating.
For one during the set up period (with that I mean the buidling of the various buildings) the engy is very vulnerable because constant turning around takes too much time away from the upgrading.  And with lvl 3 dispensers and teleporters upgrading takes longer than before (though we have lvl 3 bldgs for quite some time now).
Also the Dead Ringer has increased the problem. At one hand it's a bit easier because you can see the spy coming, but a good spy can have a second or even third run on you. During set up this can be a huge problem.

But also with the regular cloak: The way it is now I know that *I* have pretty much no chance against a skilled spy (unless I get really really lucky).

The spy should have a good chance against the engy, and be able to effectively take out buildings. But right now I feel like it has become a bit lopsided and IMHO that requires some subtle correction.

(Like a device which is installed to buildings as a fourth upgrade which makes it harder to sap them - a spy would not only touch it, but connect with the bldg for 2 or 3 seconds - but would make the buildings more vulnerable, or would slow down a sentry ... you know, always with a trade-off)

[mode_seven]

The skill in playing Spy against an Engineer, in my opinion, lies in being able to act extremely quickly when the opportunity presents itself.

I think then that a few of the tweaks suggested would destroy the balance, rather than make it slightly less uneven. A good spy, if he is clever enough to weave in between enemies, get an Engineer and his sentry, should be able to act and take out everything in one fell swoop, assuming cover from other Engineers is not present. On busy, linear maps, such as Gold Rush and Badwater, this is incredibly difficult to pull off.

Limiting the number of sappers would be extemely effective in limiting a spy's powers. Unless he can take out both a Sentry and a Dispenser at once, he simply cannot help the team.

I think Teatime's suggestion above of time delay sappers, while with good motives behind it, would also cripple the Spy. Once a Spy uncloaks in a Sentry nest, he has at best a second or two before he is at least called, and most likely dealt with.

I'm torn over the Dead Ringer. While it's extremely effective in the right hands (I'm sure I don't need to qualify to whom I am referring here ), I'm utterly useless with it. I suppose I feel an extremely important factor in any future tweaks should be that they do not worsen the already steep learning curve of the Spy for new players.

A final point, I have a general veto for myself against scripts etc., I can see why Engineers might view that particular tactical choice as somewhat unfair.

[reVert]

I've notice flame damage on cloaked spys isn't all that much, I set one of fire, 2-3 second blast and then it took 4 shotgun blasts to take him down.

I must admit demomen take down more of my sentries than spys.  Spys are just far more annoying, espcially if they backstab you then sap your sentries leaving you watching impotently as they count down to destruction.

Just a note about this, if the spy is on fire but has dead ringer active then they take less damage (not sure how much less damage it is - 90% or something?) which is probably why you couldn't kill them

[AmS]

I must say that backstabing an engie and sapping his sentry isnt that easy as it looks, lvl  1 or 2 is really not a big deal but lvl3 needs a good timing, one wrong step and youre dead,. Just try it yourselves and you will see . It also requires that engie is alone, otherwise its also possible to do this but you will end up dead in most times (sacrifice for the team FTW  ).
I would be surprised if anyone would be using scrupt to do this, i nver even thought that it could be possible.

[Carnage]

i play pyro most of the time so if any engi's want cover when building talk to me and i'll hang around for you, i may even stay alive longer!!

[LtMama]

If we're gonna start Dead Ringer bashing...(i know no one is really, but I want to) whilst I agree it takes some skill to use (that CruelCow seems to have down to an art), I don't see why they don't just put it back to the settings it had when launched i.e. no ammo replenishing, only the time you use the cloak drains the energy etc. I agree it got overly nerfed initially, but the ammo pick-up replenishing is a bit much I'm finding. A spy gets nailed they can just run to the nearest ammo supply and they've got a full charge again. As a scout if I kill someone I know is using DR, I'm having to make a guess and charge to where I think the spy is going for ammo to get it before he does. And on maps where there a plenty of ammo supplys, you're pretty much rolling the dice and hoping you pick the right one. Even if you do though, if the spy gets there before you, well there's nothing you can do. He might as well get his balls out and waggle them at you as he hops around waiting for you to shoot him again. Plus since the DR only takes like a second or less to take out/put away, they can put it away, shoot you, pull it back out before you kill them. Essentially can result in a spy being able to work behind the lines indefinitely. BAH! *rant over*



On the engineer front, I'm not too sure, since I never really play engi, nor spy anymore. Maybe give the engi a wrench unlock that can remove a sapper in one hit in exchange for less damagae and no crits (kinda like the axtinguisher), meaning the engi requires the help of team mates to kill the spy, and the spy needs to be sure to eliminate the engi before sapping, rather than just spamming

[mode_seven]

Maybe give the engi a wrench unlock that can remove a sapper in one hit in exchange for less damagae and no crits

That's a pretty excellent unlock idea actually, applauded. Would give the Engineer a choice between which he think would be a more effective defence against a specific Spy.

[Teatime]

Maybe give the engi a wrench unlock that can remove a sapper in one hit in exchange for less damagae and no crits

That's a pretty excellent unlock idea actually, applauded. Would give the Engineer a choice between which he think would be a more effective defence against a specific Spy.

Seconded. Excellent idea!

[Millicent Bystander]

I would just like to say I got well and truly sapped last night,  backstabbing me, sapped my sentry on Lvl 3 Dustbowl, the first cap on the ledge, took me ages to work out how the spy had done that.  Bloody rule changes.

[Finaldeath]

I've seen no real problems except spies get away a lot more, or get away with a lot more things, as they should do with more varied unlocks.

I think the people saying "no more then one sapper", "shouldn't be able to kill then sap" are missing the point.

The engineer is meant to have a disadvantage against a class that can go invisible, and one of their weapons can only do damage to the engineers things. It's the only class that can even try and take out some sentry guns, sans an ubercharge or very, very good push, and certainly the only class that can take out teleporters.

In any case, when I've played engineer I've just found it harder to setup against onrushes of enemies - I think it's more the classes on my side at the time though, since once a gun is at level 3, it seriously still kicks ass.

[Millicent Bystander]

Forget any other unlocks, I want a set of wheels for my sentry

[Junta]

In which case I think we need a new WDG server tactic.

Engineer buddy for set-up - maybe a pyro or a scout to see off immediate trouble if an engy is setting up behind the line of attack. Once he's up and running, the buddy can move on.

All we need to do is ask for a buddy - which is doable as we all talk / chat on server 1 don't we

I managed to block some rockets for an engineer on Goldrush... happy to do so again (just shout!)

[Ringelbeatz]

I hope the engie gets a new sg with the update....


just one word: Tesla 

[Teatime]

And since I was working on a new article today:
I think the engy update (if it comes to that) should in some way support the "offensive" engy (with that I mean forward moving engies in OvsD maps like Goldrush, Dustbowl etc) since it's a difference between setting up your defenses close to home and doing the same close to the frontline.
(This of course is not necessarily spy-related)