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[Teatime]

Seconded, Mama.
On the map I just left were a scout which had already adapted very well to the Sandman and he was giving me quite a hard time.
And before that I played a bit Scout myself to see to what tactical means the Sandman can be applied. Now I can't hit the broad side of a barn, but there were a few hits which - while not necessarily killing somebody - managed to hamper a few attacks.

And yes, I think the effect on übers can be very severe. But I repeat: I'm not sure that's a bad thing (I may elaborate at another time)! Perhaps it is overpowered and game-breaking. Perhaps we will just have to adapt to new tactics, different approaches to situations and teamwork that goes beyond the übering pair.
So I think it's premature to pass final judgment on the Sandman's effect on the gameplay already.

[Officer Dibble]

I think sandman is pretty useless to be honest, obviously against ubers it's pretty powerful. I was hit a couple of times by it and i wasn't killed or really even damaged that much (maybe i was just lucky), so i reckon sacrificing double jump is just too much for that.

Hopefully I can change that opinion by playing with you at some point It's obviously pretty useless in the hands of a scout whos just hitting them at people. But if you follow them up, can be devastating. I can pretty much front charge a heavy with it cos they have to wind up, they get bonked, I put the gun to their chest and start firing, bonk wears off and they have to wind up again by which time, they're dead. I think removing the double jump is def a fair trade for it. I reckon if I still had it I could turn into a serious pain in the ass

Haha, yeah, after playing tonight i've changed my mind. The sandman is very good, although i still don't think i'd use it, i'm just not a good enough scout to use the real weapons

[Junta]

Hopefully I can change that opinion by playing with you at some point It's obviously pretty useless in the hands of a scout whos just hitting them at people. But if you follow them up, can be devastating. I can pretty much front charge a heavy with it cos they have to wind up, they get bonked, I put the gun to their chest and start firing, bonk wears off and they have to wind up again by which time, they're dead. I think removing the double jump is def a fair trade for it. I reckon if I still had it I could turn into a serious pain in the ass

I've seriously found boxing gloves to be a superb antidote to that problem of "winding up" - I got three kills that way on the night of the update (and I hardly ever use gloves because I dont normally run out of ammo).

[Zarf]

quite interesting - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdCxUu_A-MI&fmt=18&feature=channel

[Millicent Bystander]

Scouts can be roofmonkeys too now.

[mark]

Scouts can be roofmonkeys too now.

They don't have stickies so no roofin' will ever be as annoying as that of a spam-man.

[Millicent Bystander]

Ok, anti roofmonkeys then

[Chaos]

scouts could always be roof monkeys

[Hzza]

Scouts could always be roof monkies, its just easier now with a double jump and a FaN jump. Theres still bugger all point in being up there though!

[mark]

Scouts could always be roof monkies, its just easier now with a double jump and a FaN jump. Theres still bugger all point in being up there though!

What about winning the war?

[Hzza]

Scouts could always be roof monkies, its just easier now with a double jump and a FaN jump. Theres still bugger all point in being up there though!

What about winning the war?

SCREW THE WAR!!

Anywho, this is why I want to be able to kill things with the FaN!

[LtMama]

Aye, I just cant use the FaN atm, it can only be used IMO so long as you dont use the Sandman, and in either case a) I'd prefer to use the sandman kinda b) If not,I'd rather use the scattergun.

Cos it's all well and good jumping to those spots, but you're left with one shell, so if you jump into enemys, you're left with one shot on a gun that does less damage than a scattergun. It's just like, pffft, what's the point?

[Magathery]

Nice vid fella

[Hzza]

Yeah I know, but there are some awesome places for ninja sandman attacks though. I've tried using it with and without sandman and it doesn't seem to make much difference to be honest; first shot sends people flying, second shot sends them further away and then your left with the dilema of chase them down with the pistol/bat or run away and let someone else finish the job. Far too much hard work for my likings; 3 scattergun shots, most things go down, run away, have cigar, job done!

On a related topic CEVO have banned the sandman in competitive play. Now, Valve generally don't listen to the "pro" players, but this has to be a step in the nerf direction doesn't it?! I know that I'm going to be making the most of it as it is before it gets borked!

[Junta]

Right... time for some more feedback on the scout update. I'm now over the "heated annoyance" stage that we all tend to see immediately after an update:

1) Warming up to it all really, scouts are a challenge and I'm beginning to adapt slowly.

2) I don't like losing control of my character, but there are ways to avoid it.

3) I've now actually been saved by scouts on my team when attacking an enemy heavy face on. In one duel last night I was at 50% health (being healed) and an enemy heavy dropped in front. I was about to die.. then "bonk" - made a pincushion out of the enemy and I walked away. I wanted to buy the scout a beer for that one! This also proves that scouts are MUCH more effective on defence now - particularly when they're kind enough to assist their heavier team mates!

3) Learning that travelling in pairs is a good pay to avoid takedown by sandman... Hex is a prime example of an excellent travelling buddy when I go heavy

4) Learning that the "energy drink" isn't being fully utilised yet - think this is the "dark horse" we should all be watching for as its not clear to me whether a scout can cap while using the drink. If so, this has serious implications for massive SG nests defending points (i.e. a decent scout rush may now work!).

5) Another concern is the ability to jump around with the FaN (as posted by Hzza) - this looks simply amazing. Scouts can effectively get to places that soldiers and demo men can now! This is also a problem that is yet to be seen as its all new and people are only just learning from it.

In summary, I'm learning. Like I had to when reVert stalked the servers. You have to adapt.. and get friends to help out so that scouts don't get such an easy ride. I also think that the play on WDG server has been pretty good and balanced (albeit difficult on odd occasions!).

Keep grinnin'