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[mark]

look

The Demoman has a weakness to almost any other class up close
Its not the demomans thing

The demoman is all about remote detonation, Area denial and spam
Yes a skilled Demo like mode can take people out with pipes at close range, but thats not the real intention.

The sniper is another example of a class that is DESIGNED to be weak at CQC

It just makes it more awsome when you do get a close ranged kill!

but if a pyro or scout does get the jump on you, it means your not paying close enough attention to the battlefield, so shame on you, and praise them for taking advantage of the situation.

I lost count of the times I have done that

And I don't see heavies headshotting people from across the map

[Junta]

If your a good shot (im guessing it will be similar to the pipebomb arc) your gonna own!

Oh I hope so.

In other news, quote from the blog on the Sticky Bomb damage ramp modification:

In addition, by weakening the Demoman specifically at short range, we've created a weakness that enemies can take advantage of in combat, and makes the Demoman wary of specific enemy classes (like the Scout and Pyro).

We're already wary of the Scout and Pyro, dammit!

*sigh* - the demo isn't worth playing for me at the moment.. just don't like the constant chipping away at the class tbh. Not to say that other classes haven't got their own problems, poor soldier has been nerfed too (lower ammo for example). At least the solly keeps his damage rate.
I do also feel for the scouts - Natascha now works properly and it really hurts scout (don't jump and live!)

[claws]

The change didn't look that drastic on paper - does it make that much difference? You're only getting a minor nerf that soldiers had months ago. I don't want to turn this into yet another 'demo overpowered' thread, but I think the majority of people would still say it's the strongest all round class in the game (in the right hands, of course).

[Hzza]

Scouts now have 2 hard counters (ie very rarely will they escape alive) as I see it, sentries and nat heavies which I think, is more then any other class. Couple this with the insane amount of spam on most maps and I'm lucky to get 1 kil per death! Hopefully the update will give us bunnies more of a counter against these, but to be honest, I don't hold out much hope! [/moan]

edit - @claws, definatly agree, theres a reason why they're the only class that has a limit in competitve play!

[Junta]

Firstly, I don't disagree about the demo man's power (part of the appeal) - just that I get demoralised when a class has nothing given and constant tweaks taking things away.

My point simply was that you have to keep "re-learning" demo man more than other classes (well, maybe) - as the damage change leads to failure now where previously I had success. Laziness on my part really. A prime example of having to make changes was for the sticky bomb update allowing the stickies to be destroyed. This now means placements on walls and ceilings for ambush - does make you think more and I don't think its totally a bad thing.

I'm not saying that the nerfs are unwarranted, just that after various other tweaks I'm losing patience with demo man at the moment. Put more simply, its more fun playing as a heavy and less thought required to kill people and help the team.

Looking forward to seeing what the scout gets though:

http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate

Wish they'd announce more!

The sandman actually looks like a good addon to me - fun and practical, equal opportunity for risk and reward. Wont do anything to a sentry mind, and I like the sound of the impact on uber (most interesting). Maybe a scout will play more of a role as a defender?

[claws]

My first thought was 'nat is overpowered', but what it's done is restore the heavy as something to be feared. A heavy without a good medic is still pretty vulnerable, and when I play scout my job is to take out the medic anyway. It's not as easy to run rings about heavies as it was, but it's still possible to kill his little friend.

If it's any consolation to Hzza, soldiers are almost as badly ruined as scouts are by natasha!

[Teatime]

I wonder what our friends of the arsonic profession are thinking, because when I'm using 'Tasha it's primarily to counter scouts and pyros.

[Hzza]

I do like the look of the Sandman (after a nights contemplation) but I think sacrificing the double jump may be too much of a nerf. I guess theres no way to find out until we get our hands on the bloody thing!

Can't wait for tonights update, judging by the heavy update, should be a new map or even the new game mode! W00t!

@claws - glad I'm not the only one feeling it!

[mark]

I do like the look of the Sandman (after a nights contemplation) but I think sacrificing the double jump may be too much of a nerf. I guess theres no way to find out until we get our hands on the bloody thing!

Can't wait for tonights update, judging by the heavy update, should be a new map or even the new game mode! W00t!

@claws - glad I'm not the only one feeling it!

Don't expect this to be like the heavy update mate [I really hope they give us the achievements next]

[Junta]

I wonder what our friends of the arsonic profession are thinking, because when I'm using 'Tasha it's primarily to counter scouts and pyros.

Yes, but I agree that 'Tasha has also had a *big* effect on soldiers caught in the open and at close range.

[Gonk]

Blody hell - I've gotta learn scout now!
Can't wait for the sniper nuclear bomb update

[Millicent Bystander]

Redeemer for Sniper

Perhaps the only thing that will encourage me to play the class

[DeadlyAvenger]

Redeemer for Sniper

Perhaps the only thing that will encourage me to play the class

god damned i love that gun!

[scroggage]

Yeah, sandman sounds like a lot of fun, and lends more purpose to using the scout on defence when the spam is flying.
Still doesn't give them the edge over the engie though, I'm expecting one of the other upgrades to be some kind of speed boost or similar, to help a skillful scout make it past (without destroying) a sentry nest.

Also no-one has mentioned yet, but the sandman makes scouts lose their double jump. Is it just me, or will that take away one of the best things about scouts when you get up close and personal with the enemy team? The decision to use sandman might not be such a no-brainer after all for the scout who enjoys a good mid-air direction change.

Shame Valve always drip-feed us the info like this.

[Chaos]

lol its the eric cartman technique!

no you cant have it! so now you want it!!

I think that will be a good range weapon for some spam... not the best close range as its gonna require some setup time!