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December 2025

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[Power]

Oh fuck, I didn't read your last post when I transfered, Chaos, but whatever, use it for the next Mumble rate or something.

[Chaos]

I've sent a couple of PMS but this is better.



Print it out, cut it out, and come on down to my house

[Chaos]

I got the Valve Complete Pack and Gmod!
all the left over cash is going to go towards the community Mumble server and a couple of other community events I have planned for WDG with ChaosPWNS

new account - http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198021290155

[Teatime]

As much as I feel for Chaos, and it's a sad thing to happen ...

That's exactly what a good "anti-cheat"-system should do!!! (anti cheat not in prevention, but in retaliation).

You want cheaters to get hurt. You want a punishment which is felt and can't be circumvented lightly (not that getting a new account is such a hard thing to do). You want such a system to have as few loopholes as possible. (It has been pointed out already, otherwise would people hack their accounts themselves and take that as grounds for getting unbanned. You getting into a large grey area which leads to far too many discussions, case-to-case decisions and ultimately unequal treatment).
You want such a system to have teeth, and you want it to bite! Otherwise it's just a joke.

And especially now that you have entered competitive gaming you should appreciate that repercussions for cheating are that dire.

[LtMama]

That's all well and good tea, but you don't want it to completely dick over good people who have done nothing wrong either

[Twiggeh]

Have also only just seen. What a bummer :/

Will send over some monies to help you on your way in a bit

Edit: I should read the whole thread before posting!

[claws]

I don't think Valve can have their cake all possible ways. There's no game trades or resale, you can't gift games you already have, but they have the power to ban you from things you *paid for* without explanation or appeals procedure. Theres harsh and there's draconian, and I don't think they'd get away with it if there was a true competitive market. Valve are hardly doing all they can when it comes to security (they only just got email verification for christs sake), and this is the company that got their own damn source code hacked. So until they get their own act sorted I don't think it's acceptable to take such a hard line.

[Burnalot]

That's all well and good tea, but you don't want it to completely dick over good people who have done nothing wrong either

This.

[Teatime]

Hmm, perhaps you should remember that basically they don't run their anti-cheat policy for them, they run it for *us*.

If you prefer a game where you have to wonder half the time if anybody with kills like TP or Chaosfox is using an aimbot or not, okay. And while this can still happen I prefer that any of those bloody cheaters is taking a serious risk by doing so. After all those bastards are betraying us, not Valve.

That's all well and good tea, but you don't want it to completely dick over good people who have done nothing wrong either

This.

And how do you separate the "good" from the "bad"? Anybody telling a heart-throbbing story gets his ban lifted?
Anybody with a "good" story gets it lifted but those with "bad" stories are unlucky?

One aspect is unsatisfying: There should be a clear explanation. "Player XYZ was found using cheat ZYX on server 123.234.345.456 on December 17th 2009, 14:15." Not that this would change anything ...

PS: Also ask yourself how you would feel playing a clan match against a clan you know a few members had bans which had been lifted. Now you lose that match and a few things didn't feel right. Prefer that?

[claws]

Part false dichotomy, part strawman argument, nobody proposed abandoning VAC, just a more reasonable approach.

And how do you separate the "good" from the "bad"? Anybody telling a heart-throbbing story gets his ban lifted?

Absolutely - using discretion. It's why we have judges and juries and attempt to discern facts rather than just chopping everyone's head off

[Lullaby]

Sorry to read that.. I have no advices and no money, but I hope Power was generous enough for the both of us, I will pay him back in naturals asap.

Now look at the bright side: You can get all archievments and all the other stuff again!!

[egg]

Tbh vac is crap and easily bypassed as with every other anticheat system.

So the consequences have to be bad enough to put u off cheating in the first place in order for it to have any purpose.   IMO the banning procedure is fine as tea said. Other games stop u playin online also.

I think the hard bit to swallow is banning ur entire account and all ur games. They should just stop the one game and you should be able to repurchase a new key to get the game working again under ur existing account

[Tommy the Cat]

And how do you separate the "good" from the "bad"?

OOOH PHILOSOPHY HAPPENED.

Will give philosophic interpretation for food/crack.

First we must outline what we define as good, in the Wittgenstein-ien language games tradition. It seems apparent immediately that to know good we must also know the bad as it's comparison. Therefore a good act is one that has positive consequences for a particular party. But there must be a balance somewhere, for no action could be considered good by everyone. For example, say we are passing by a homeless man and give him half of a sandwich. Not only does negitivity pass on to us in the form of hunger unfulfilled or money wasted but the homeless man might reject it due to his possible wheat allergy. I therefore conclude that no action could ever be considered truly good as a negative effect will be impose upon another.

[Brahms]

Tommy is desperate for any application of his worthless education.

[CruelCow]

They do NOT take those games from you, they only flag your account negatively with VAC and certain servers prevent people who are flagged that way to join. While you might argue that's technicallity, it totally removes your legal angle afaik.
You can still play single player games without any restrictions and multiplayer games on non vac-secured servers. (If you want THAT though I don't know.)

I also have to agree with tea sadly. There is no thing that deadly can say, that a cheater can't see as or even more easily.

If the entire cheat system could be circumvented by "hacking" yourself, (something that could be automated to be done within seconds without any interaction of users.) you might aswell disable the entire cheat system.