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Damn. 1&1 have upgraded their something or other but seem to have allowed for ancient forums like this to keep on
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I go lethal on grim missions
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My CommunityForumGamingTeam Fortress 2Topic: I'm so tired of this
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Author Topic: I'm so tired of this  (Read 14161 times)
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Junta
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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2009, 12:12:48 PM »

You made me google "unicum" Sad
Without googling, I'd hazzard a guess that it's a generic term for Jizz that applies to boys n gurlz Wink
OMFG ROFL!

See what he did there Power? See other thread on "to be Nineblade worthy"
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egg



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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2009, 12:18:57 PM »

You made me google "unicum" Sad

Unicum - One specific type of sperm Wink

Duocum - Two types of sperm

Tricum - Three types of sperm - Usually derived from a tarts artistic vocation
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egg



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« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2009, 12:19:38 PM »

You made me google "unicum" Sad
Without googling, I'd hazzard a guess that it's a generic term for Jizz that applies to boys n gurlz Wink

lol beat me to it Cheesy
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Nineblade
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Get witch or die trying


« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2009, 12:22:23 PM »

Could also be found on a students wank mop Cheesy
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HeX
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« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2009, 12:23:19 PM »

If this isn't a de-rail i don't know what is!!! Cheesy
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egg



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« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2009, 12:23:56 PM »

Could also be found on a students wank mop Cheesy

Only if they are a "stud-muffin" lol Cheesy
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Hzza
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« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2009, 12:24:14 PM »

If this isn't a de-rail i don't know what is!!! Cheesy
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Nineblade
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« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2009, 12:25:19 PM »

Twas John's fault
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egg



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« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2009, 12:25:39 PM »

If this isn't a de-rail i don't know what is!!! Cheesy

Wrong Hex....

de-rail - When the spine is properly knocked out of place in the tart Cheesy

This could go on all day Wink Cheesy
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« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2009, 12:26:13 PM »

Twas John's fault

I agree.... John you are to blame Smiley
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Teatime


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Still rubbish after all these years


WWW
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2009, 09:34:14 PM »

Okay, party pooper time: RERAIL

Just a FYI: When I wrote my answer I noticed that I was late for work, so I had to wrap that one up quickly.

As for your post (and I resisted to quote it ;-)):

In regard of PR you are a bit contradicting yourself. I'm willing to believe that Valve employees actively communicated with individual players (had some of those myself), but outside mailing lists there was almost no communications with (or even towards) the community at all. You had the occasional post in some more popular forums. That was pretty much it.
Back in those days we always joked how terrible Valve was on the PR side.
Compared to that I see improvement today, though of course things could always be better.

As for them making errors in the past or outright handling things wrong:
Many of those I can't comment on without knowing more facts. However, I have no intention to canonize Valve. They will probably have their skeletons in the closet. But that's a different discussion.

As for your comments on steam pricing: You could be right, but apparently Steam is very successful (just a few weeks ago the german computer magazine c't wrote a bit about steam, and as a selling platform it apparently is doing quite well).

As for your many comments on class balance:
This again is a different discussion. Many of those do not qualify as bugs, those are class tweakings on several levels and a redefining of the classes which is in the flow. Some of my thoughts about that you can find here.

I agree with demos, but that's a global problem and probably caused by game engines becoming so huge that demos might no longer be feasible, even with today's huge storage capabilities and broadband connections. But yes, it would be nice if demos would be offered more often.

Coming back to the issue at hand:
When I asked you to specify the mentioned drop in quality I was under the impression you were referring to the technical qualities of Valve, not their overall attitude. I still don't see that they screw up more than in the past. Nor do I think they screw up more than others, most definitely considering the frequency and extent of their updates.

Still owe you an answer on playtesting:
Yes, if they'd played the final release they should have noticed the bug (unless the environment in which they run the game is different, but that would disqualify it for playtesting). So chances are that they either didn't playtest it thoroughly or that the bug was introduced very late in the game (I'd like to think it was the latter). So yes, they screwed up.
However, I'm sure when you look around you will see a lot of applications -  commercial, private, even open source - which had bugs slip through, sometimes equally obvious ones. Such things happen. It's not good and nothing to be proud of, but in a busy working environment, perhaps even under time pressure, things slip through and test are not done as thoroughly as they should.
And for that reason nobody should sit on a high horse and accuse Valve of sloppy work and worse unless he can point to a 100% error free track record.
Also I take comfort in the thought that last monday morning probably wasn't the most comfortable time to be a Valve employee Cheesy.

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Finaldeath


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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2009, 03:54:48 PM »

Junta is right, those things introduced do indicate a poor amount of QA from Valve.

There is a problem when a game is auto-updating with mandatory updates and things break. You can't just say "Hey, things are getting better" if, in fact not everything is. It is an entirely valid point to make.

Quote
nobody should sit on a high horse and accuse Valve of sloppy work and worse unless he can point to a 100% error free track record.

Ridiculous. You must love politicians, they are all just doing their jobs right? How about Police arresting the wrong people? How about when a doctor kills a patient? How about something as simple as a letter being delivered to the wrong house by the Post Office?

I mean, we should damn well accuse them of sloppy work in all these cases, if not worse in many of them, because even if we're not all perfect there are some cases where it's bleeding obvious it is not at an acceptable level of performance.

No, Valve isn't quite "omg, STALKER buggy", but introducing more bugs which makes a game break can be an issue. It's not at cry-baby level for me but honestly, QA seems to be poor (like no one playing soldier?!) and updates rather poorly rushed if they keep having these issues. I can give Valve the benefit of the doubt now - they're patching pretty fast - but to say they're glorious angels of delight and because we can always find flaws in our own work we need to let them off is utter rubbish, sorry.
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Finaldeath
Junta
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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2009, 05:22:38 PM »

Agreed. If they introduce a bug late on (and don't test it) then they quite rightly come under fire. I would expect it myself.

In any event, if the bug DID get through testing (i.e. they did some, not just a release) then I also agree that its a pretty poor regression test they have at Valve

Smiley
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TheBeau


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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2009, 05:24:49 PM »

I agree with you Final.

But no one does as VALVe do and this is why I think they can be excused slightly. They are offering so much that I can't help but feel they are getting a hard time. Working on and maintaining so many of the best PC games in the world can't be easy and personally I think they deserve the benefit of doubt as you said. I think Teatime was simply commenting on the impatient and voracious few (or many, depends how you look at it) who seem completely devoid of understanding.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 05:28:12 PM by Basingstoked » Logged

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Finaldeath


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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2009, 05:53:30 PM »

I only give them so much benefit of the doubt. Just because people are impatient too, doesn't make them wrong - the whole point is they'd not be angry if such bugs are not pushed on people in the first place.

Despite what Valve do (keeping a game updated nicely), they do it the worst possible way - no beta end-user testing, and all patches are instant *and* mandatory. This causes some real problems when they release them on a Friday, ouch for weekend play! I think this might be a root cause for flak Valve might take more often the other places.

Yeah, Junta, the word I should have used at some point is "regression" - these are obviously things being put into practice which break already-working code. Programmers generally can see the fact it is complicated (engines are not pretty code) - but since these are bugs with already-existing code (which should lay untouched surely, or be tested more if changed) it's a rather big issue Sad (you wonder what kind of things are broken unintentionally we don't know about!)
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Finaldeath
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