next »

[Please Support Us!]

Please Support Us!

Please help keep (=WDG=) alive

• Server rules
• Forum rules
• Join us
  
• Clan members
• About the clan
• Server stats
• WDG YouTube Channel
• WDG Downloads
• IRC Webchat

Steam groups:

• WDG community
• WDG clan group
• WDG Battlelog Platoon

Our allies:

• [NuB] TF2 clan
• Velocity Gamers Hub
• Destination Gamer

GoG Links:

• Wix Discord
• Wix IRC channel

TF2 Links:

• Official TF2 Blog
• TF2 Steam Forum
• The Fort 2

December 2025

Mo	Tu	We	Th	Fr	Sa	Su
1	2	3	4	5	6	7
8	9	10	11	12	13	14
15	16	17	18	19	20	21
22	23	24	25	26	27	28
29	30	31

[Power]

The best part of it, is that no one had any idea an update would come soon, so there was no pressure on them whatsoever, they chose the time for the release themselves and could very well make sure that the code is finalized before even ANNOUNCING the update.

[Teatime]

nobody should sit on a high horse and accuse Valve of sloppy work and worse unless he can point to a 100% error free track record.

Ridiculous. You must love politicians, they are all just doing their jobs right? How about Police arresting the wrong people? How about when a doctor kills a patient? How about something as simple as a letter being delivered to the wrong house by the Post Office?

Okay, how about that?
First wrong letter he delivers gives him a friendly notion, the second a warning, the third gets him fired. Let's better not consider how many million letters he may have delivered fine over several years.
Of course the head of personal accidentely makes an error in the procedure, invalidating the notice of termination. Guess the boss better let him go, too.

I don't know about you, but I make a lot of errors during my work days. Some minor, some less minor. Some easy to fix, some take more time and effort. My job does not involve any serious decisions and actions. It's not life and death, not invading people's rights or freedom. I'm glad about that and I don't envy people who have such responsibility.

And you know what? None of those errors are done on purpose. Even sloppiness wouldn't describe it properly. But with a huge workload doing a dozen things at once, planning ahead and looking after, within a million of small little steps errors happen. At least they happen to me. I see them happening to my co-workers. Perhaps they are not happening to others.*shrug*
Because of all that I have probably a higher tolerance that errors happen to other people as well. The more serious the consequences the more I demand that all steps necessary are taken to avoid errors. On the other hand I expect people to take responsibility for their errors and correct them.

Of course errors should be pointed out. But to turn that into blame every time is not recognizing the reality. I'm quite sure the have been some really uncomfortable conversations at Valve last monday. I'm sure they didn't wave it aside. And I also agree that some acknowledgment would have been nice.
On the other hand: If the worst thing that happens to us is a bugged rocketjump which is corrected 3 days later (or 4 if you want) than at least I can live with that.

[Ringelbeatz]

Maybe people should learn to accept that nothing is perfect in the world.....

[Junta]

Maybe people should learn to accept that nothing is perfect in the world.....

Again, as a developer I have to agree. But that does not mean that I have to drop my standards as a customer (or that my own customers should drop their standards when I give out software with a very obvious bug).

Lets just put all this into perspective: Valve have delivered a fine product and have a plan to keep changing it. I think that all we're saying here is that sometimes bugs really should be noticed! The only analogy I can think of is that a car manufacturer drops off your new car without noticing that the windshield is missing. It really should have been noticed.

Overall, it doesn't make the car a bad product (when the shield if fixed), and the company still is commended on a fine model of car. However, we all have to take notice of the cock ups.

The other point I'd like to make on this is to re-iterate Final's comment: We have no choice on the updates - they're pushed out whether we want them or not. Using the car analogy again, you'd have lost your current safe car and would be forced to drive round in a new one without a windscreen (even if ONLY for one or two days).

I applaud Valve, but I also ask them to do a bit more play testing next time. It should have been obvious really. In terms of fixing the bugs - well done, they did it.

Also - for beta testing. Why did Valve not share this release with the modders? I've found link after link on mod forums (Beetlesmod and Sourcemod) stating that they did not have enough info to patch their code prior to the new TF2 release. Why hold on to it Valve? Having servers break is no great advert for your software is it.

http://www.beetlesmod.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5812&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Quote from Sourcemod developers:
"As Team Fortress and Day of Defeat server operators have noticed, Valve released an update tonight that broke SourceMod.
Usually we are able to handle updates very quickly. This one was different. There was no public beta, so we had no way of testing or preparing. To make things worse, Valve actually forked their Orange Box engine, broke compatibility, and didn't release new headers or any information about the changes. With absolutely no warning, we had to reverse engineer these changes and update our source/build infrastructure for a new engine configuration."

So - my summary of this release is that it was un-necessarily rushed, not tested properly and the wider community was not helped or brought up to speed on what was a *mandatory* release.

Sorry, but Valve really ought to do better.

[egg]

Maybe people should learn to accept that nothing is perfect in the world.....

Again, as a developer I have to agree. But that does not mean that I have to drop my standards as a customer (or that my own customers should drop their standards when I give out software with a very obvious bug).

Lets just put all this into perspective: Valve have delivered a fine product and have a plan to keep changing it. I think that all we're saying here is that sometimes bugs really should be noticed! The only analogy I can think of is that a car manufacturer drops off your new car without noticing that the windshield is missing. It really should have been noticed.

Overall, it doesn't make the car a bad product (when the shield if fixed), and the company still is commended on a fine model of car. However, we all have to take notice of the cock ups.

The other point I'd like to make on this is to re-iterate Final's comment: We have no choice on the updates - they're pushed out whether we want them or not. Using the car analogy again, you'd have lost your current safe car and would be forced to drive round in a new one without a windscreen (even if ONLY for one or two days).

I applaud Valve, but I also ask them to do a bit more play testing next time. It should have been obvious really. In terms of fixing the bugs - well done, they did it.

Also - for beta testing. Why did Valve not share this release with the modders? I've found link after link on mod forums (Beetlesmod and Sourcemod) stating that they did not have enough info to patch their code prior to the new TF2 release. Why hold on to it Valve? Having servers break is no great advert for your software is it.

http://www.beetlesmod.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5812&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Quote from Sourcemod developers:
"As Team Fortress and Day of Defeat server operators have noticed, Valve released an update tonight that broke SourceMod.
Usually we are able to handle updates very quickly. This one was different. There was no public beta, so we had no way of testing or preparing. To make things worse, Valve actually forked their Orange Box engine, broke compatibility, and didn't release new headers or any information about the changes. With absolutely no warning, we had to reverse engineer these changes and update our source/build infrastructure for a new engine configuration."

So - my summary of this release is that it was un-necessarily rushed, not tested properly and the wider community was not helped or brought up to speed on what was a *mandatory* release.

Sorry, but Valve really ought to do better.

In this rare instance, and a chance to brown nose () I agree ......

[Junta]

 

The nose fits snugly Egg... ty

[Nineblade]

I try to get things right every time but there are just too many crumbs on my desk to distract me!

[Finaldeath]

Well put Junta, I entirely forgot the point that it breaks mods, which was not fun for us on the Friday, making the servers unplayable (thus many others too of course!)

[Teatime]

A lot of your arguments have merit, and after some thinking and deliberations I guess I had to revise some of my statements.

Though I admit that when I hit the third paragraph of my response I figured if I'd go TL'DR I could do so more publicly.