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[Zarf]

Anyone got experience with these? I've been looking into them for my parents as an investment opportunity and they actually seem really attractive. The Govt doesn't help with installation grants any more, but they do have a really interesting system whereby they pay you 41.3p for every KWh your system produces independently of what you are actually using or exporting back to the grid. This scheme is index linked (so will rise with inflation) and guaranteed for 25 years from the installation.

It breaks down like this, for a 4KW system quoted at about 14.5K fully installed, and around 1200 daylight hours per year (so generating around 4800KWh / year) the government pays you back £1982. You are also saving 4800KWh worth of electricity from your bill, which at the average price of 12p/KWh is another £576. If you are a net exporter the economics aren't quite so good as you only get 3p/KWh back on the excess.

So all told you are making approx 17.6% return on your investment. For a system that lasts 25 years that's not too shabby.

So, has anyone got experience with these? Is there some kind of hidden pitfall I've not yet seen?  From what I can tell based on savings alone they aren't that great but with the government incentive paying you so much per KWh it's actually a decent way to invest your money.

[PapaFade]

Talk to Rippy. He's done alot of research into alternative power sources.

Probably to re-energise his spaceship, so he can return to his own planet

[Brahms]

Don't forget maintenance costs.

[Guilt]

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=35345925#post35345925

Have a look at these they are for free ones but i'm sure much of it is relevant.

[DeadlyAvenger]

Can't you get them fitted for free? I seem to think my mum is getting some put on her house for free.

E.g:
http://www.britishgas.co.uk/solaroffers-bg
http://freeelectricity4u.co.uk/free-solar-panels/

etc.

[Millicent Bystander]

I went to a job interview at Everest who have just launched a range of alternative energy products, the presentation was interesting but if you go with Everest you will be paying top wack.  I have also looked into doing it interdependently.

With anything like this, unless you are in the trade get it professionally fitted and not by a "mate" or a relative who claims they saw it done once.  Pay for a proper, established company to do the work.

If you can afford the large set up costs it's a good deal.  From what I've heard, unless you live in a really windy area don't get a wind generator.  My dad has hot water supplied by solar panels and it provides a reasonable saving on his hot water bill.  Also look at ground effect heat pumps for miracle heating and hot water. If you own an old boiler swap it for a new A rated one.

The electricity figures you have been given are wrong.  There is no way, at the moment you are going to generate enough electricity from solar panels to provide a whole house's electrical needs with a normal domestic installation.  There is a gizmo you can fit on your electricity supply that limits it to 220v that is meant to save a large amount of money.

[Zarf]

Can't you get them fitted for free? I seem to think my mum is getting some put on her house for free.

E.g:
http://www.britishgas.co.uk/solaroffers-bg
http://freeelectricity4u.co.uk/free-solar-panels/

etc.

Yeah, you can get them fitted for free, but then the fitting company takes all the government funded money, which is where the profit margin is. You still get the savings on your bill though which isn't too bad. If you fit them yourself and get the government cash there's the opportunity to more than treble your investment over 25 years (which is why so many firms are eager to fit for free).

The electricity figures you have been given are wrong.  There is no way, at the moment you are going to generate enough electricity from solar panels to provide a whole house's electrical needs with a normal domestic installation.  There is a gizmo you can fit on your electricity supply that limits it to 220v that is meant to save a large amount of money.

I went and put the figures into http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Cashback-Calculator/ (non-profit government organisation) and it's giving me similar results (though notably they are apparently using figures of 900 rather than the 1200 daylight hours per year that I was quoted)
It does take up a fair amount of roof space (22 * 13 Sq Ft panels @180W for the 4KW system), but we have a south facing barn roof that's suitable.

It's not enough to meet our houses electricity needs (not yet sure why we are using so much power, but went through 15000KW last year, and I wasn't even around so it wasn't computers at fault)

Why do you think the figures are wrong? Just gut feeling?

[Millicent Bystander]

A quick Google shows the average house uses 18000Kw a year so you aren't doing badly.

I was told by Everest in their presentation that a normal Solar panel installation wouldn't cover the electricity bills.

[Zarf]

A quick Google shows the average house uses 18000Kw a year so you aren't doing badly.

I was told by Everest in their presentation that a normal Solar panel installation wouldn't cover the electricity bills.

Yeah, we had a salesmen round, and he seemed to think around 5000 KWh was the norm for the UK and 15000 was abnormally high. Maybe 18000KWh is figures for the US, where they need Air Con and houses aren't as well insulated?
We do run an electric oven, rather than gas, so that might be it. We got a condensing boiler too which heats on oil but uses an electric pump.

Just been reading this - http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/feb/06/solar-power-bright-investment - It seems to check out.
We have the roof space and money for a full 55 panel 10KW install, so it's possible that's what we'll end up going with, Commercial energy costs are only going to go up (in real terms) over the next 25 years so the less we have to buy in the better.

[Magathery]

I think it's all fairly covered.

Yep, the feed in tarriff is a good insentive from the government. But the long, short & skinny of it all is time and money. The initial outlay is in the region of £15,000 all in. So that the kit and the instalation by an aprooved electrician. On average, the system will pay for it's self befor it reaches the end of it's life so to speak.

The offers of "Get you solar energy for free" are a bit of a con. The company get's the money from the feed in tariff, not you. They also get the money for any surplus generated. Ok, you can have any energy it produces for free. But the sun is out during the day, and people are typically at work during the day. So you'll get home. The sun goes down. You still end up having to buy energy off the grid. All in all it's a 25 year contractual con. Don't do it.

If you can afford it, do it. It will increase the value of the property. If your planning on staying there for over 20 years, then all kinds of good. So provided you have a south (ish) facing roof that isn't overshadowed by big hills, or trees or blocks of flats and the roof its self is structualy sound enough to take the extra weight of the pannels, then it is a consideration worth looking in to. Talk to your current energy provider for the services & products they provide.

I looked into a PV system as regards my flat, but the money involved isn't a sensable investment. I would be wiser to replace the 18 year old kitchen and bathroom and change the windows to increas the resale value. And it will probably cost me less than a 1/4 of what a PV system would.

Anyway, if I had £15,000 spare, I would probably spend it on a whole bunch of other things

[DeadlyAvenger]

The offers of "Get you solar energy for free" are a bit of a con. The company get's the money from the feed in tariff, not you. They also get the money for any surplus generated. Ok, you can have any energy it produces for free. But the sun is out during the day, and people are typically at work during the day. So you'll get home. The sun goes down. You still end up having to buy energy off the grid. All in all it's a 25 year contractual con. Don't do it.

It isn't a case then that whatever units you put into the grid during the day, you can take out during the night etc?

[Zarf]

The offers of "Get you solar energy for free" are a bit of a con. The company get's the money from the feed in tariff, not you. They also get the money for any surplus generated. Ok, you can have any energy it produces for free. But the sun is out during the day, and people are typically at work during the day. So you'll get home. The sun goes down. You still end up having to buy energy off the grid. All in all it's a 25 year contractual con. Don't do it.

It isn't a case then that whatever units you put into the grid during the day, you can take out during the night etc?

Nope, since the excess is sold back to the grid (by your fitting company, at 3p/KWh) there's no "banking" scheme.  It's not terrible since it costs you nothing (except the opportunity to use that roof space yourself for the next 25 years), but the investor gets far more from it than you do.

[Millicent Bystander]

Nnnnnecro!

Just had an interesting conversation with a developer, he says in his experience the only eco power source worth the money is a heat pump (works like a frige in reverse) which will heat an entire house and provide hot water for free if you power the fan with a solar panel.

Apparently all new houses now built in the UK have to have some sort of eco power source and have to be sealed (practically airtight).

He was also moaning about spending £700 on heating oil since Christmas.  Our sympathy was dulled somewhat when he mentioned he hadn't even heated his indoor swimming pool.

[Junta]

Talk to Rippy. He's done alot of research into alternative power sources.

Probably to re-energise his spaceship, so he can return to his own planet

Much LOL. I'd have a ride in his ship for sure

[Magathery]

Passive houses are all kinds of good. Just no letterbox. Or cat flap