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October 2025

Mo	Tu	We	Th	Fr	Sa	Su
		1	2	3	4	5
6	7	8	9	10	11	12
13	14	15	16	17	18	19
20	21	22	23	24	25	26
27	28	29	30	31
	Birthdays
Uzz919 (29), FlowingEye (36), Karthus (35)
	Upcoming Events
Upcoming Birthdays: Uzz919 (29), FlowingEye (36), Karthus (35)

[Berath]

Spread the word!

I think if we focus on Tuesday as our first actual Server 2 Event......

[Yer man oer yonder]

Is good. I think we should poke server 2 into action more often.

[DeadlyAvenger]

Yup - good games tonight!

Great to see the server full and some positive comments from the people that were on it! Let's hope we can keep it up!

[quell]

i applaud the idea but if you're gonna keep that 6s whitelist this will just be yet another tf2 vanilla server people don't care for. you're running a pub server where people come to have fun, not here people come to improve their skills (if you're targeting the comp crowd) so really you'd be much better off with a HL whitelist. then maybe you can ban some individual items like gunslinger, or put class limits on some of the classes instead.

[Berath]

Thanks for taking the trouble to post...it's good to get feedback.

Last night was the first time we've had the server full for any length of time so we now have a better idea of what might need changing.

We'll be looking through the chat logs for any other feedback from players.

The main area of debate is 6v6 whitelist vs HL whitelist.

Personally I still prefer a 6v6 whitelist as in my opinion the HL whitelist is too broad and ...but I play stock demo (sometimes medic, rarely scout) so I'm more-or-less uneffected. I had a great time last night; I don't play comp so that server is the nearest I can get to it.

However rather than implementing a HL whitelist and banning some weapons, we could keep our 6v6 whitelist and allow some critical 'fun' weapons for each class e.g. GRU for the Heavy. For that though, we would need more feedback from people, for instance the Engie may claim that the mini-sentry is a critical 'fun' weapon but we know how much it's generally disliked!

I'm also concerned that if we allow random weapons, it could be confusing

What we could do is use alternative whitelists e.g. the ESEA 6v6 whitelist is a lot less restrictive. There's a list for comparison here:

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Competitive_item_restrictions

[discordance]

why is bootie time banned in highlander but allowed in 6v6. Allowing certain weapons is incredibly subjective and unfair if it happens to be one you like and others don't. Either commit to boring vanilla 6v6, or highlander but don't let the debate get into minutia of individual weapons because that will never end and your choices will be unfair to someone. I think highlander is the better choice, its the only comp any of us are likely to play. Even I have played it (badly). The servers 10v10 might be more interesting to lock in highlander class limits or highlander +1. You aren't going to get an authentic 6v6 with that many players so why bring the boring weapon restrictions along for the ride? Run a 6v6 server if you want 6v6.

[Berath]

Disco, check the table I linked to. There are other 6v6 whitelists which are less restrictive

And that was what I was saying...it's probably better to go with a whitelist from a different league rather than just allow/ban weapons at random because, as you say, that is too subjective and potentially inconsistent.

In a way I think that if HL is the only comp any of us are likely to play perhaps we should aim the server away from HL to give us the opportunity to experience more of a 6v6 environment. Which I like by the way, but then, as I said, I play demo so really my opinion doesn't count. I'm not good enough to play 6v6 so I'd never play on a 6v6 server or even a HL server as a demo....much too scary.

The experience of playing on the reddit server is very close to playing on a server with a HL whitelist sometimes, so it's already out there anyway.

[Jebus]

Which I like by the way, but then, as I said, I play demo so really my opinion doesn't count.

Actually Berath as a WDG leader, and someone who actively plays TF2 and spends a lot of the time filling both servers (to name but a few reasons) I would say you opinion regardless of class played matters a lot.

I don't understand the argument that it should just be a 'fun' public server with a few class/weapons restrictions. Firstly we already have one of those and secondly the whole point is the whole idea was to provide something completely different. As a result some people will hate it and some will love it.

If you find it 'boring' then play on another server, try filling WDG #1 or wait till Friday. Other people find public 'boring'.

I know that its been tried before and yeah most likely it wont work out long term and will have to be tweaked here and there and I suspect the ESEA whitelist might be worth a try as it would open up a few more viable map choices - but so far its a good start.

Server was full-ish last night from 8pm - 11pm which matches Friday performances. Lots of positive comments from a lot of players.

[Karthus]

Most item restriction choices are made by public vote disco. Thats how the FaN got out a couple years ago. Creating a whitelist based on what the majority wants is imo the fairest thing you can do in a league like the ETF2L

[discordance]

Most item restriction choices are made by public vote disco. Thats how the FaN got out a couple years ago. Creating a whitelist based on what the majority wants is imo the fairest thing you can do in a league like the ETF2L

Yes but as the whitelists have been created by large groups of other people it saves trying to tweak them a single weapon at a time here. Picking one whitelist or even switching between a few is better than spending a lot of time trying to make a new one. How many people who even play on the server are going to join the forums to vote on individual weapon changes. Not nearly enough for it to be fair. Unless you just add a whitelist vote to the server... Or for lols a random whitelist.

[Karthus]

well then the server isnt successfull

[DeadlyAvenger]

Yeah - I would always want to keep it as a standard whitelist because then we don't have to worry about creating/maintaining/arguing about individual whitelist items.

How much does the whitelist type affect the map choices? I mean I always thought it was just because HL is a bit less serious etc. and that's why the whitelist is less restrictive? I always thought that the HL whitelist basically allows everything except for things are generally considered 'unbalanced'

Even though certain classes are pretty gimped in the 6v6 whitelist there were still quite a few people playing spy, sniper, engi, heavy etc. and the classlimits are such that you can have just typical 6v6 classes on the team without anyone being forced to play a non-typical class (4 solly, 4 scout, 2 demo, 2 medic).

Unless we wanted to run an actual HL server with classlimit 1 - which I don't think would be popular because people will just leave if they can't play the class they want I think the 6v6 whitelist is the way to go.

My personal opinion is that I like the ETF2L 6v6 whitelist as that differentiates the most from a normal pub server and removes some of the more 'controversial' weapons that are enabled in other whitelists like mini-sentries & the dead ringer etc.

And as others have said - this isn't a 1-config-fits-all kind of server - it's clearly aimed at a different player and style of play than a typical public server. Server #1 will always be available (and this is one of the reasons why this new config is on Server #2 and not as an occasional event on Server #1) if you want 'standard' pub play!

One of the key things (apart from a few minor configuration changes relating to the map votes - I think it changed map before the vote even happened) is going to be adding more maps to the rotation - I've tried to put in all of the 6v6 pool maps and a few of the ones from other leagues (e.g. highlander) for some more variety.

[LtMama]

First time I've been onto the server in a while last night and actually stayed on for more than one map

[Yer man oer yonder]

First time I've been onto the server in a while last night and actually stayed on for more than one map

BAN SNIPER RIFLES!!!

I wouldn't really agree that the whitelist really gimps any class. The vanilla loadouts are decent (and Omni is still a bloody annoying pyro without that damned shotgun of his _quack). It may remove the option of certain playstyles but the classes are still viable.

[Jebus]

Was quite surprised how many people were successfully playing spy and pyro (damn you Dohjan!). As yonder says just have to adapt play-style.