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[Power]

Hullo, why don't we up the round number per map to four? I know we had a huge discussion and ended up with 3, a number that I also spoke out for at that time, but the server landscape changed somewhat since then.

Some players became so good, that the balance tips over fairly quickly if just two of them are on the same team. It's not unusual for a map to last only a couple of minutes, because the teams end up unbalanced twice in a row and one of the side just rolls over the other, making a perfectly fine map to go to waste, before you can do anything about it.

Having an extra round would mean having a little more time to sort out properly balanced teams and maybe even out a losing game for a change, so a team doesn't feel completely destroyed and have 50% of its players leave the server on mapchange.

Sure, some maps are a pain in the ass with every single round of play, but that's not really a problem with the number of rounds, but with the maps itself.

Just throwing it out there. Discuss (or don't).

[Berath]

I'd never actually thought that was a number we'd set!

I think it's worth considering. It's well known that players are lost at map change. There have been times when the numbers have been building, there's been a map change and half the players have been lost again. An extra round would give more time for more players to join that map.

As Power said there are less good maps, but yes, that's the fault of the maps. We can either not vote for them or rtv them. Serious killers like doomsday have already been quietly put out of their misery.

[Yer man oer yonder]

This actually sounds like a good idea to me. It will probably cause certain maps to end based on server time mid round more often but games where that happens anyway tend to be quite intense So that could be a good or a bad thing.

Sure, some maps are a pain in the ass with every single round of play, but that's not really a problem with the number of rounds, but with the maps itself.

As for this, I reckon there's more maps where the extra round is a good thing than maps where it's a bad thing. If it gets intolerable there's usually an admin about who can save us!

P.S. MORE HYDRO!

[Berath]

There are some maps that seem to go on forever.

There's that plr one; can't remember it's name as I've usually zoned out by the end. If we have an extra round, can we tweak rtv, it's fairly rare that we have enough votes to change the map so it shouldn't result in maps being changed left right and centre.

[r007]

I like the ideas brought forth in this thread.

€dit: Especially HYDRO!

[TNG]

I agree with Power. Some maps just go by too fast when teams are unbalanced and we don't get a chance to play it with balanced teams because the rounds are up by the time things seem to be levelled out.

P.S.: Okay okay, I could go for a round of Hydro. If we did a round of 2Fort the other day and survived, we can do one of Hydro... just don't get used to it yonder!

[Sk1nn3d]

I think it is possible to tweak the auto-balance plugin to reset the round-counter like manual balance-trigger does.

This would be better so we don't have to modify and find out the best Nr of rounds.

There is a hazard tho. This could go on infinitely as we all know how bad the auto-balancer is

[Berath]

That's why I was wondering about tweaking rtv.

If the server finds itself trapped in a never-ending round/s of hydro (though how could we tell), we could rtv our way out of it.

[Jebus]

I think you should just increase the number of round to 4 or 5 with a timelimit of 30min (change on which ever comes first).

Auto-balance imo should not occur on the first round. With most maps winning mid usually decides the round winner. What often happens is that in the first round the teams are still filling combined with one team having a stupid class balance (too few heavies classes or no medics) and so loses very quickly. However, this usually gets resolved by that team for the next round. As a result one team who has a good class balance will win quickly but would likely not the next round as other team would balance itself naturally. However, balance kicks in and has to guess based on very few indicators (kills etc) on who to balance. Lost count of the number of times where the teams have been okay but one side just got a quick round resulting in an awful balance for the next two rounds.

Waiting till the end of the second round would also provide more data for the balance system to use to better even up the teams. At the moment I think it uses kills and dominations? Plus ofc round won within 2min. Might be worth looking into if it can be improved/tweaked. Not sure if it can use the HLstatsX database or if there is a plugin that can allow it to do so to get a much bigger data-set

Other gripes include Heavy limit which i think should be 2, and Soldier limit which i think shouldn't be there or at least 5 or something.

[Berath]

Is there a soldier limit?

What class limits do we actually have?

[discordance]

Class limits are annoying if they must be there i'd prefer they were just 3 for each class. Its very annoying with a 2 limit if your team really needs a good spy/heavy/sniper whatever and you cant switch to it because 2 useless pub players have the slots. And a team full of soldiers would be just as unfun as a team full of spies or whatever. Even 5 soldiers would be pretty horrible especially if they were all good soldiers. More soldiers and less heavies is just personal preference on how the game should be played by other people and not really fair for a public server imo.

[Jebus]

Yes I know its a touchy subject when its your favourite class and I don't expect a change.

I had started to write paragraphs explaining why 3 sollies =/= 3 heavies regardless of ability and why if your team has 2 bad snipers/spies it doesn't matter how good you are, going sniper/spy is only going to make it worse. But is just personal opinion and I am quite happy playing another class if solly is full.

Was just a suggestion to encourage more consistently balanced teams.

[ISPY]

I agree with jebus, I'll play any class, except; spy sniper medic engineer heavy demoman pyro soldier and scout. That is all, no wait, i've just listed classes im bad at.

[DeadlyAvenger]

Done - round limit changed to 4. No real objection to changing it and I agree that sometimes the map can change too quickly.

[Power]

Wow, I love democracy. Everyone can change the very fabric of time and space by just suggesting it!