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[Magathery]

Following on from the break away discussion going on in the "sv_pure" thread, I'm interested into finding out peoples stance on using real world money to get virtual money. World Of Warcraft would be the main example I suppose.

My own oppinion is that I don't think it's right. Paying some one else to put in effort into a game seems some how hollow. Yes, games like WOW can be very time consuming. But if you've brought the game (with real money) and then set up your subscription (with real money), then why are you paying more money to some possably unscrupulious bugger to get virtual currancy? I just don't get it. Surly playing the game will reap the rewards when you put your own effort into it? Yes there is the issue of time. Grind can be dull. So I can kind of see the appeal of paying some one to give you the means to remove, or reduce, the grind and get on with playing the game. Why spend hours running around virtual landscapes looking for resourses, and then putting them on a virtual auction house, and then waiting for another player to buy them off your character. So that you can then go and buy what ever virtual thing it is that you are after. Just pay your cash to someone and BING! your virtualy loaded. Buy the top notch gear avalible to you, and fill your boots with glory.

This is possably a very big and dull can of worms I'm about to open, but I am genuinly interested in people opinions on this.

[mark]

I think it's cheating. [Insert long boring monologue about why here]
Dull can of worms indeed I'll be leaving this topic.

[[ZiiP] Lazzars]

cheating or not games like WoW concentrate on farming and grind. this obviously takes a lot of time and those with some semblance of a social life can't spend all day indoors playing a computer game (however much they want to). i think its fair for those without the time to grind their way to costly weapons and to help them at least compete.

realise i don't play wow or any other MMO so i find the whole concept distasteful anyway but i suppose you need someone to play devil's advocate.

[Finaldeath]

I think Magathery, you could have expanded the examples:

Second Life has actual Linden Dollars which can be actually brought and has an exchange rate. This game almost requires this.

Many games contain microtransaction items, be it many that are not based around combat. These also contain items that can't be brought and must be earnt some other way. I can list dozens of these.

Eve Online is a definite money == time more so the World of Warcraft (where items are key, and items can be traded or gained without money). This builds up an entire economy around corporations, territory control, mining (a legitimate non-combat role) and so forth.

Then there is the more standard affair that gold is, if not plentiful, at least not required in huge amounts just to play the game. World of Warcraft is one, as are more RPG's, where there are sometimes necessary money sinks to "balance the economy" (since these economies are always broken). Some even allow looting from players, and so forth.

I very much doubt anyone here cares enough - although I'd be interested in knowing it just for curiosity's sake, I don't play MMO's myself, so my opinion isn't influenced by actually playing it.

The problem is, if you play the games, even though someone else buying gold neither makes your game less fun (you don't lose anything) the problem is someone else has gained something that took you effort - your worth is devalued by people buying levels or items or gold. This is less of a problem in social worlds, certainly where you can create your own content (such as Second Life). The "Keeping up with the Joneses" is a real problem physiologically for many people though, and since the game is played to usually have fun, knowing someone somewhere is gaining using out-of-world currency is painful.

I'd have to agree partially, but generally I play for content not gear (one reason I don't enjoy unlockables, leveling and certainly grinding) so it'd not be too worrysome to me, but to many it is, certainly if gaining loot helps a guild or quest that they have fun doing.

[DeadlyAvenger]

Yeah, i used to make quite a lot of money selling money/items on a game called Kalonline (exactly like WoW but completely free to play)

I used to have people paying my by paypal, sending cheques to me - it was awesome

[CruelCow]

The option "No- But it's ok for others if they want to." confuses me. Shouldn't that be 'yes'?

As stated in the other thread, it's fine with me. Just keep the player from killing me with his +20000dmg sword until I got mine by "honest" work and I'm ok with it.

Unfortunately it's a different thing with shooters (most of the time). Separation is impractical and unusual, I've yet to see a tf2 server where only people who have unlocked everything can join. In such cases unlockables are bad and buying should be only an option if I can unlock it quickly the normal way.
(Battlefield 2142 did this the bad way afaik: players who had the add-on could choose from more weapons or something like that)

Also of course it's depending on how much better the stuff is. While in tf2 some items are clearly an upgrade, you can live very well without them. In one of the battlefields (2142 again?) you had to unlock the item to revive fallen soldiers as a medic AKA part of your main job!

[Finaldeath]

Yeah, that Battlefield malarky was a pretty poor. I've never got the games myself, so I don't know first hand though. Generally, any time that is required, something is up.

However, those microtransactions things are a slightly different ballgame I guess (a much worse one) for all the reasons you pointed out and more - there simply, without paying, isn't any way to obtain some of the weapons and objects! (and for a skill based game, this makes everyone suffer - since you're worse, your team performs much more poorly, etc. etc.)

[Zarf]

For me it's a time = money thing, i could either spend an hour grinding or an hour working for pay, and then buy gold. I found working both more fun, and more efficient than grinding.

If i haddn't been able to buy gold, i'd have quit the game long before I did. Theres no fun, or challenge in grinding, just monotony.

[Millicent Bystander]

It all depends on the game, I remember gold farming becoming common in Ultima Online and it causing rampant inflation on the Europa shard.  My house when from being worth 75k to 1.5 million.  I remember getting a "rare" christmas gift and selling it for 1 million.

However (at least when I was playing) having money was not essential.  You didn't need the most powerful weapons or best armour unlike WOW.  If you have to "work" for hours doing something pointless just to enter the dungeon you want to there is something wrong with the game.  That is why I won't be playing any more MMOs

[Nineblade]

Why not just rename it to World of Whorecraft

[Hzza]

Why not just rename it to World of Whorecraft

Most sensible comment here! Good job sir.

[Junta]

Ultimately - its not for me to say how other people spend their money... so no issue for me.

[r007]

Personally, I'm sticking to World of Walkcraft, since you spend so much time (which is all they want, your time!) running from A to B killing X amount of Y for stationary cockhead Z.

On the note of buying gold: If you happen to have enough time on your hands, than buying ingame monetary equivalents is irrelevant, since you can gain enough by yourself. To me the following happened: I want to run around in a party with some friends of mine, so XP gain is not that much of a problem. But the group play does not leave enough loot to keep up with the learning/skilling business in terms of money. I took the option to farm, since I had enough time by then, but I can understand people that don't have the time to grind and want to play with their friends to counterbalance their lack of time with bought ingame currency. (After all, time equals money.)

Paying someone else to do the questing and stuff, i.e. buying a character, takes all of the fun out of the game, so no, i would not endorse or engage in such activities.

Fully agree with John, though.

[CruelCow]

Ultimately - its not for me to say how other people spend their money... so no issue for me.

So you're fine if I put a hit on you?

[Junta]

Ultimately - its not for me to say how other people spend their money... so no issue for me.

So you're fine if I put a hit on you?

Apart from paying you off there's not much I can do to stop it LOL