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discordance (40)
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Upcoming Birthdays: discordance (40)

[Hzza]

We've had worse. Remember the Backburner? +50hp?! WERE THEY FUCKING HIGH?!

Yeah, those were dark days...

[PapaFade]

No, those were great days

[Junta]

No, those were great days

I remember the next day of the pyro update, when we didn't have class limits on the server. You claws, hex and I were in the dustbowl spawn area on level 2, we were attacking... from inside the spawn gates Claws uttered the words "be careful team.. there could be pyros out there".... I think 90% of the enemy were Pyro that night and they had that b*stard backburner with the extra range and health buff.

At the time I thought it was OP, and some Pyros agreed, but it was the last time that Pyro had what he/she (it) needed - real teeth!

[Hzza]

Learning to play scout with all those pyros around very nearly turned me off TF2 for good!

The bastards...

It was a bit on the OP side though.

[Lazzars]

No, those were great days

agreed, i got so much pyro time in in those days

[Twiggeh]

Prepare to be tamponed!

Edit: As you normally would

[Zarf]

Well I can't code for shit, but I can notice missing things just fine.

I can both applaud Valve and smite them...

When making software, you generally have a "regression test" - a set of tests that you repeat with every build in order to check that new functionality doesn't break the old.

Whilst I accept that games software is incredibly complicated and difficult to test, I still don't see why Valve don't have a standard set of things to repeat test. Obviously this is made more complicated by the fact that there is an "exploit" needed to get the dodgy result for the engineer (i.e. multiple sentries).

I think Valves strategy is right tbh - It's a game, not a mission critical bit of software.  Testing time is proportionate to the number of testers and i'd rather have an evening of glitches followed by a fixer patch than have it take them months of extra testing to make sure each patch is perfect before release.

[DeadlyAvenger]

This thread covers an exploit, an extension of the "infinite engineer buildings" bug, which allows you to create a building which, when stared directly at by a member of your team, crashes their game.

lol...another found problem with the latest update. fortunately this *shouldn't* be possible on our server.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iioBx6RveM

[discordance]

Well I can't code for shit, but I can notice missing things just fine.

I can both applaud Valve and smite them...

When making software, you generally have a "regression test" - a set of tests that you repeat with every build in order to check that new functionality doesn't break the old.

Whilst I accept that games software is incredibly complicated and difficult to test, I still don't see why Valve don't have a standard set of things to repeat test. Obviously this is made more complicated by the fact that there is an "exploit" needed to get the dodgy result for the engineer (i.e. multiple sentries).

I think Valves strategy is right tbh - It's a game, not a mission critical bit of software.  Testing time is proportionate to the number of testers and i'd rather have an evening of glitches followed by a fixer patch than have it take them months of extra testing to make sure each patch is perfect before release.

aye and tbh some of the bugs are getting pretty lol. Its making me want to log on for patches now to see what they've broken.

[Teatime]

Let me tell you a story (TL'DR alert):

Periodically we check out inventory for "negative balances", meaning items we sold more of than we should have. Such things can happen for a variety of reasons (some more explainable than others). One common occurrence is having two variants of an item and at some point an error was made with the balance, e.g. you should have 5 of each variant, but by accident the goods receipt (word?) checked in 3 and 7. So when all items are sold you have a virtual balance of 2 for one item and -2 for the other.
If the value is the same we tend to correct this imbalance by simply making an according sale/return (you sell the 2 in stock and buy the 2 missing)

Yesterday I was doing such a correction with two different items. I wrote the receipt, went to my superior for his signature, he glanced at it, signed it and I went to the cash to have it booked. There it it came to light that the balance of the receipt wasn't 0. The reason was simple, I had made a mistake. On one position not only had I entered a 1 where it should have been a 2, but also apparently had forgotten to put the amount as negative.
So I wrote a new receipt to correct that mistake, had it signed off again, went to book it and then everything was fine.

As a whole, not a big deal. Of course I've wasted some time and embarrassed myself a bit, but in the end no harm done.

Should I have noticed the mistake. Sure. A simple look at the receipt would have shown it. But I was so sure I had entered the correct numbers in the correct manner that I didn't check. I'm not even entirely convinced that I actually made an error entering the number and wouldn't rule out a mistake by our software, but if that was the case I was unable to reproduce it, so yeah, it was probably me.
And yes, my superior could have noticed. Then again he was probably trusting me to get such a simple procedure right and didn't check.

So what now, people? Should I go shoot myself because I made such an idiotic mistake? Should I quit my job and look for something less sophisticated which my pea brain can handle?

At least occurrences like these remind me (beside the obvious "Try to be more thorough next time) to be more humble and to be more forgiving to mistakes of others.

[claws]

Whilst I accept that games software is incredibly complicated and difficult to test, I still don't see why Valve don't have a standard set of things to repeat test. Obviously this is made more complicated by the fact that there is an "exploit" needed to get the dodgy result for the engineer (i.e. multiple sentries).

This, but how about just playing the game for a few hours, which should find half of this stuff already

[discordance]

finding the build bind exploit is not something that would come up in standard testing, you need the legions of the internet trying to break your game to find that

[Power]

So what now, people? Should I go shoot myself because I made such an idiotic mistake? Should I quit my job and look for something less sophisticated which my pea brain can handle?

At least occurrences like these remind me (beside the obvious "Try to be more thorough next time) to be more humble and to be more forgiving to mistakes of others.

Well.. you COULD look at the receipt and not make some unnecessary mistakes? And also, I don't know, how many people saw your receipt, but according to Valve stats 15000+ people played TF2 today...

[DeadlyAvenger]

Yeah...I'm kind of on the fence with this one...as a self-employed PHP/web developer and an end user I know what it's like on both sides.

- You can make a lot of really simple mistakes really easily...even just missing off a ; or putting a ' instead of " can easily break anything.
- You know how sometimes you make spelling mistakes? Well this translates into programming to by typing numbers incorrectly. Sometimes you should have put a 0, or a 1, or a 2 etc. and when you're talking about complex conditional statements (e.g...if A = 2 AND B <= 2 AND B >= -4 AND how many sentries have been built > 0 do I want that to be TRUE or FALSE) trying to work through the logic can sometimes be tricky.
- Saying 'well you already fixed that'...sometimes a change somewhere can cause totally unforeseen changes somewhere else. If you do a search for 'fix' on the TF2 update page you get 639 fixes...and that's not including bugs that have been patched silently or larger game changes...generally if you've fixed something...you wouldn't think to check it again EACH and EVERY time you update.
- This exploit is not easily available to the average player...think about how many people have their developer console enabled, know how to use it, have a script to build engi items and it's highly unlikely it would have been noticed during normal play. (And you wonder why games don't have developer consoles/dedicated servers anymore...)

On the other hand:
- Some bugs should definitely have been spotted before being released
- It's exceedingly frustrating for other players
- They are pretty quick to release patches and updates to their games. 119 updates is ridiculous...and I for one can't think of any other game that has had as much post-release support.
- Valve's lack of support & working with 3rd party developers has been awful. The update caused sourcemod to crash servers forcing them to rush an update which shouldn't have been necessary - which is not only a pain for the sourcemod developers....but for every poor admin (including me) who has to then go around and clean up after it.

Just a few thoughts I'd had on the issue

[Officer Dibble]

- Valve's lack of support & working with 3rd party developers has been awful. The update caused sourcemod to crash servers forcing them to rush an update which shouldn't have been necessary - which is not only a pain for the sourcemod developers....but for every poor admin (including me) who has to then go around and clean up after it.

Even though this doesn't affect me directly, it's still the biggest issue I have with the way Valve do updates. I would have thought that with something as widely used as Sourcemod they could at least test it out first.