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October 2025

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Uzz919 (29), FlowingEye (36), Karthus (35)
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Upcoming Birthdays: Uzz919 (29), FlowingEye (36), Karthus (35)

[Berath]

I just want to clarify some stuff about maps

When custom maps are on, Quickplay traffic is not directed to the server. This also includes tc_hydro, and cp_degrootkeep. This is how I understand it and one reason why I complain about tc_hydro being selected if there are not many people on the server.

Are the Valve-recognised maps installed with the game? (I never checked  ) which is why they don't have to be downloaded?

Does a custom map only need to be downloaded once? A map like snakewater (I'd like that on the server) is played all over the place. The odds are a new player has already been on a server running it and has downloaded it then. Will they need to be downloading it again each time they play on a server with it?

I've noticed on server 1 that at our peak the majority are regs or at least people who have got at least a couple of hundred TF2 hours on their accounts. Sometimes I've looked at the list and I know practically everyone playing. We seem to get relatively few complete newbies. That's one reason perhaps why the server tends to be dead by about 10.30.

If this is the case, would it be possible to add a couple of new maps, knocking out ones that the majority dislike?

I'm thinking..snakewater, process, obscure, croissant; a couple out of here for example
Edit: or a snowman with lasers!

[DeadlyAvenger]

We've attempted this many times in the past - irrelevant of quickplay and the server will fill up with players on the valve maps (which includes hydro and degroot keep - these aren't custom maps) and then as soon as a custom map comes on either the server empties (because only a handful of people have the map and 95% of people won't be bothered to go and download it, or if downloads are enabled, wait for it to download) or the server hardly has any players on it for the first round while the others download it. We even had Server #2 set up as a dedicated custom map server long before it started being used for matches but it remained empty almost all of the time. Generally what we found was that anything someone had to download in order to play (like custom sounds, mods, textures, maps etc.) generally put people off waiting and joining the server.

Quickplay isn't the be-all-and-end-all of filling the server - before Quickplay we were still capable of filling the server through the server browser (obviously though this was partly because the server was populated every evening) and I still expect that at least some (or more) of our traffic comes from there.

You're right that the maps only need to be downloaded once - as long the map is the same (i.e. the name and the contents of the file) then as long as it's in your maps folder then that's fine.

The flipside of this is that if the server never gets any public traffic (through quickplay or otherwise) then if the community wants custom maps to be available on the server then that's fine - but if there are public players on the server, chances are they'll all leave as soon as a custom map comes on. While the competitive TF2 has become more popular over the years, I'd still be surprised if even 10% of TF2 players have many/any custom maps installed.

[discordance]

I think the only way it can work is as an event. And even then it can be hard to drum up the numbers. At least if its planned though maybe some people will have the maps. The other problem is as deadly says noone has more than a few custom maps installed but that becomes less and less of a problem once a community gets used to and has a bunch of maps installed. Getting the momentum to get a bunch of lazy nerds to download custom maps to begin with is the hard part.

[Berath]

I can certainly see why a majority custom map server would have difficulties.

But I've just had a wee investigation (not literally) and taken a look elsewhere

This has just been done on another well-know TF2 server with a vanilla map rotation after a similar request (their previous experiences with non-stock maps was like what Deadly said).

They've put pl_swiftwater on the nomination menu only (for a trial), apparently this means that it won't come on so much when the server isn't busy. Would it mean that if people haven't played it i.e. are new, they probably won't vote for it and so odds are it won't be selected?

If people know it and vote for it, chances are they have it or are interested enough to hang around if it's downloaded.

I'd like us to carry on thinking about it. A lot of the people I'm attempting to drag on to the server are Highlander players and people who like a bit of comp (there's a fair few clan-type people still out there looking for pub servers to call home). Since we can't really turn off crits, I'm just pondering on what else they might enjoy...apart from games where people actually sort of know what they're doing  

[Omnipotens]

The thing with custom maps is, people also seek these out. Maybe not "new" custom maps, but there are a raft of old ones that people do play.

An event is probably needed, but perhaps not.

I understand things like this have been tried before, no reason not to try again though. And if we're actively pimping, custom maps or no, I think we'll have moderate success.

[Berath]

Omni is right. I know during a season, I'll search for servers with comp maps on.

Putting a couple of custom maps on the nomination menu isn't the same as running a custom map server. I think we should try it again.

To be honest, I don't see how much we can loose by it. Tonight the server was dead by 10 (and at it's peak it was mostly regs and clan members, most I imagine with the main custom maps loaded), there have been times when it has barely lasted an hour. And it's not the 'death of pub TF2'. Other servers are still busy when ours has died.

It's worth experimenting especially when it doesn't really impact the 90% of the community who don't play TF2 anymore. Those that do, can have a tinker and because we're frontline players we'll be able to tell immediately, within an evening, if it isn't working

If you haven't the time to do stuff, I'm sure you can find people to help out.

[fraac]

I'm sure the Grumpy Old Gits aren't bigger than you and their server fills up most days. Couldn't you make the Friday thing a regulars' event with cool maps? (How is Fastlane a stock map when Snakewater isn't?)

[Berath]

I've popped on their server a few times and you're right (in fact I considered joining them when I was looking for a community but one of the admins posted something I thought was offensive and his avatar was purile).

But yes, they're about the same size as us and, now I think of it, have custom maps.

fraac has a point. Maybe we could actually try something like that on Fridays. It does seem to be mainly regs plus chums. We also have tagged people playing which shows it's not a server of random f2ps for people who don't recognise/know our regs and community members....this is actually one of the reasons I'm always saying hello, to flag people up as well as being delighted to see them cos I am

So maybe we can try that and even look to having a vanilla event on another evening. We'd get less regs probably so sticking to stock maps may be more sensible. Now me and Omni have admin powers (mhawhaha) we can stick on all talk etc when we're building up at the start if we feel it needs it and of course make group announcements, again if we feel they're needed.

Anyway, anything is worth a whirl! TF2 seems to be the only game that draws people
in and I want to see a buzzing community with plenty of people playing plenty of games.

[fraac]

Why not have the Friday event include a WDG highlander PUG? Would be easy.

[CruelCow]

Before? Not enough people. After? Not enough people. During? You'd drain 18 people out of the normal event, which barely has that many regulars.

[discordance]

re maps. I am willing to make a showing to help a custom maps thing be a thing.

[Berath]

What was the final decision here?

A selection of custom maps on the nomination menu on Fridays, but not on rotation? Is that possible?

[DeadlyAvenger]

There hasn't been a final decision yet, we can definitely put some custom maps in the nominate menu (so they won't appear as vote options normally unless someone has nominated them). They'd have to remain in there though - which I don't really see as being a problem. It would just be more of a pain to switch out the configs etc. otherwise. Do you have any suggestions of maps you would like to see in the rotation? Maybe we could run 1 custom map a month (which can be updated by an admin or whatever) or pick a small number of maps and have a downloadable map-pack on the homepage to get the maps that are currently available in the rotation.

I'm sure the Grumpy Old Gits aren't bigger than you and their server fills up most days.

But yes, they're about the same size as us and, now I think of it, have custom maps.

The difference between them and us (in that their server fills up most days and ours is empty except for Friday) is that the server requires a catalyst - a handful of players all joining the server at the same time every night to get a game going. Once you have that catalyst on the server - the server will generally fill up pretty quickly and once full, it generally has enough critical mass to stay busy for most of the evening (as people see their friends are on the server, it looks 'nearly full' on the server list, quickplay etc.). We don't have that any more (because of fewer people who 'main' TF2 and people generally not wanting to join an empty server i.e. to be that catalyst, which is understandable). I guess the shift is that a couple of years ago anyone could just join the server at any time in the evening and it would either be full or you wouldn't have to wait long for it to fill up (because of others thinking/doing the same). I'm sure if you ran an experiment for a month where you had at least 5-6 on the server every night at the same time for a month - it would soon be busy (i.e. full) most nights again.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to fix that (which I think is really the core issue here) - please, PM me and we can discuss it.

[Berath]

That is the core issue. The server requires a catalyst....as you say a number of people who fill up the server as the same sort of time over a number of nights.

I'm still not sure if Quickplay prioritises servers. I've noticed on a few occassions our server has had 5-6 randoms playing for 30 mins or more but the server doesn't fill. The same has happened on other servers which are used more often and a similar number of randoms has managed to fill them. Is this because, when this has happened, there are more people playing TF2...no idea.

HH had a similar problem and were talking about dead servers...I think they changed servers which totally wiped their Quickplay rating. They worked hard over a number of weeks as you said, and now have a server that is full most evenings, often with very little input from regs to seed it. GoG are slightly different and seem to rely more on regs to keep their server full and seem to have fewer Quickplayers, maybe because of the custom maps. Reddit also seems to rely on regs (everyone there seems to play comp, HL or 6v6 and knows each other)..again they have the common custom maps like snakewater and croissant and it fills most nights often till late.

So I'd go with putting one of the more common custom maps on the nomination menu. I agree that too many custom maps wouldn't work yet...we'd need a lot of regs. I've noticed that GoG are having a Christmas map event and seem to be having problems keeping the server full with them even with their larger core of regulars.

Maybe, swiftwater, snakewater or pro_viaduct? Should we have a poll?

[Omnipotens]

One of the reasons we don't have the core players, is that we ourselves don't populate. This is something we should want to change, even if it's just a few of us.

There's no particular reason that custom maps are going to enable us to that, except it is something different that a few of us can push behind and support.

When we were actively trying to get people on there, quickplay or not, we got new blood and new faces - the proof of that is the regs we picked up and the group invites that were excepted because of it. I want to be able to work to a plan to make a change for another day/event or whatever. Thrashing one out first, has to be priority.

I get that WDG has been around and I also get that for most members "it's had it's day", doesn't mean that goes for everyone, plenty of full servers out there. If people aren't around to lend their support for a new event, or even for Friday, that's fine.. but writing it off as "we tried that" or "doesn't work" when nobody is actually trying, seems a little premature.

Personally, I want to lend this time to address this issue, but I don't want to be the only person trying. I also don't want to try and fail, not to try again.

If we go into this with a defeatist attitude (and I think that as a group we have been) then we won't have a chance of succeeding. If we can't formulate a plan, it's kind of hard asking the community to help us out.

I'm also open to the idea of donating items or metal to some kind of event. Rewind to HH and their kill an admin event. That kind of thing.

In regards to server issues, config changes etc, there are surely simple ways to make this difficulty go away and if not, we can work around it. We've got clever people, I'm sure we can come up with clever ideas