discordance
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« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2011, 01:09:53 PM » |
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Come on junta at least admit that theres was no way for me to express my view in the poll. I wanted PR and yes, no, or abstain i don't get what I want and people put spin on it. Not trying to convince you to vote for change here just that I was presented with no choice. After the fact it seems like I should have voted yes as this was the closest answer to what I actually wanted but then we would have ended up with AV and it really is rubbish for the amount of money it would cost.
There was one possibility but I only realised afterwards and it would have required massive activist organisation ahead of time. I think basically if people had written PR in big letters on their ballot and spoiled a record number of ballots that is the one way we could have gotten our opinion represented in the poll.
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Junta
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« Reply #46 on: May 08, 2011, 01:27:07 PM » |
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I agree that PR wasn't an option / wasn't part of the referendum. If you want PR, you're going to need another campaign for it! If you didn't want AV though, you should maybe have voted 'No' otherwise your lack of a vote could have seen it ushered in within this referendum. Sometimes you have to say what you're against even if there isn't a vote for what you want. A more complicated referendum probably would not have gone down any better tbh (i.e. a vote on AV / FPTP and PR at the same time). I don't think a PR referendum is likely, and I don't think turnout will be good (which I still think is pretty crucial btw Claws).  |
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Zarf
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« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2011, 06:30:43 PM » |
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I agree that PR wasn't an option / wasn't part of the referendum. If you want PR, you're going to need another campaign for it!
The problem is we aren't going to get a campaign on PR. FPTP ensures that the only people we can put in power have a vested interest in blocking PR. The people want it but the Conservatives and Labour parties don't - why do you think they wouldn't even allow a third option on the ballot paper to represent this? Or put a question to gauge interest in the census? It wouldn't have added any expense. Our only shot was to have AV which might have given the smaller parties enough power to take the next step. Anyway, the Torys have played this brilliantly, they are looking to win the next election by a landslide thanks to Labours collapse in Scotland and an unelectable leader in the form of Miliband. LD should hopefully recover a bit after people have a taste of the Conservatives without their LD moderators. Pity it'll take the best part of a decade to get there. |
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Guilt
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« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2011, 10:24:12 PM » |
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The problem is we aren't going to get a campaign on PR. FPTP ensures that the only people we can put in power have a vested interest in blocking PR. The people want it but the Conservatives and Labour parties don't...
Perhaps the reason the Labour and the Conservatives parties are not offering PR is because the majority of people don't want it. Im sure that if there were millions of voter clamoring for a more representative system then they would be all over it. |
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mode_seven
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« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2011, 11:08:00 PM » |
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The problem is we aren't going to get a campaign on PR. FPTP ensures that the only people we can put in power have a vested interest in blocking PR. The people want it but the Conservatives and Labour parties don't...
Perhaps the reason the Labour and the Conservatives parties are not offering PR is because the majority of people don't want it. Im sure that if there were millions of voter clamoring for a more representative system then they would be all over it. I don't think it's the case that a majoirty of people don't want it as much a majority of people don't even think about the issue or are aware that PR is an option. |
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discordance
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« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2011, 11:58:44 PM » |
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guilt even if that were true. its still in their self interest to deny pr. And who doesn't act in their own self interest when it comes to their career. If you can show me a tory mp who doesn't I might drop dead in shock.
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« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 12:22:27 AM by discordance »
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Zarf
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« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2011, 12:03:30 AM » |
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The problem is we aren't going to get a campaign on PR. FPTP ensures that the only people we can put in power have a vested interest in blocking PR. The people want it but the Conservatives and Labour parties don't...
Perhaps the reason the Labour and the Conservatives parties are not offering PR is because the majority of people don't want it. Im sure that if there were millions of voter clamoring for a more representative system then they would be all over it. I don't think it's the case that a majoirty of people don't want it as much a majority of people don't even think about the issue or are aware that PR is an option. Exactly, If you asked them whether they thought it was particularly fair that the conservatives or labour can end up with around 50% of the seats in parliament from only ~35% of the vote, whilst the liberals end up with about 10% of the seats despite having 25% of the population voting for them it's obvious how they'd answer. The system is laughably undemocratic, as well as being flawed thanks to the vote spoiling/splitting issue which often means that a candidate who the majority of residents despise will usually win out over one who the majority of residents could accept. If who was running your local council actually mattered then there is a case for the district systems, but most people come election time are primarily concerned with who will end up making decisions at a government level and our system massively fails to represent the peoples will in this. |
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« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 12:07:37 AM by Zarf »
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Brahms
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« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2011, 06:58:00 AM » |
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You liberals could move to Cambridge. Lib Dems seem to win over here.
Then we just secede and make our own country.
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discordance
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« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2011, 01:38:18 PM » |
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brahms is lonely in cams. liverpool is a lib dem/labour area we all poor as shit.
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Zarf
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« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2011, 02:31:32 PM » |
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You liberals could move to Cambridge. Lib Dems seem to win over here.
Then we just secede and make our own country.
It's pretty telling that the districts around the top 4 universities in the country (Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial College London and London School of Economics) all voted Yes. Smartest academics in the country wanted AV. |
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Brahms
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« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2011, 04:08:42 PM » |
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So what pal. This is a democracy. We got no interest in doing what smart people say.
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Zarf
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« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2011, 05:11:18 PM » |
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So what pal. This is a democracy. We got no interest in doing what smart people say.
Unless those smart people happen to be called Rupert Murdoch. |
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Brahms
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« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2011, 06:15:48 PM » |
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How dare you say anything nice about Rupert Murdoch. I won't stand for it.
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