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[Junta]

On the other hand, have 8 GB RAM now, deactivated the page file alltogether.

Why? Even with 8gb the page file serves a purpose even if it is hit less than with 4gb etc

[r007]

For future reference: I think the official method is to do this via SysPrep, with the caveat of not being able to upgrade your Windows installation.

Relevant TechNet articles:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc722177%28WS.10%29.aspx
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949977/en-us

tl;dr
Unattended Setup, change ProfilesDirectory location.

[Power]

Read those as well r007 and frankly it sounds like a pain in the ass. And for the page file - don't think I'll need it. Should it show otherwise, I can still activate it.

[r007]

Of course it's a pain in the ass to do it the official way, it's Microsoft we're talking about after all. To be fair though, it probably is easier than trying 500 other solutions and reinstalling Windows 7 times.

[Power]

To continue on this topic, since John wondered about why I deactivated the page file. I've been thinking about this and have reading some more on the internet here are some thoughs. Need some input.

Basically, three things in my PC are new: Nvidia 560 Ti, 8 GB Ram and Win7. Remembering some advices I've read on the net, back in my XP days (when I never had 8 GB Ram) I deactivated the Windows page file on Win 7. Now there are still contradicting posts about this topic on the net, so I'm trying to collect the pros and cons of this and decide if I keep it.

From my understanding, the page file is used for files that were loaded in the RAM but haven't been used for a while, such as for applications that are in the background when task switching or some stuff. Also it is used when new data is being loaded into RAM but there is not enough space for that, so the old data is being offloaded to the page file.

Reading up some more, there is more information that says, that the page file is also used for generating error logs and even if the RAM isn't full, when Windows is expecting a peak in the RAM usage, so it doesn't get clogged.

Based on this information and my current RAM load levels, I've come with the following lists regarding deactivating the page file completely.

Pro:
- Saving HDD space. Usually not a problem with the huge drives nowadays, but mine is not terribly big (320 GB). Judging by the usual (not universally accepted) formula of page file = RAM amount x 1.5 I'd be using up 12 GB for the page file, which is a considerable chunk of drive space in my book.
- Reducing fragmentation. Already prevented that by setting a fixed size to the file, though I don't know anything about the internal data usage within the page file, but since defrag utilities handle the page file as one big chunk I presume the reserved space is a solid block with no internal fragmentation.
- Reducing fragmentation on the system partition specifically. Even if it's one chunk there will be data saved before and after it and depending on the size of the files it's going to cause fragmentation. Also prevented that by placing the page file on a different partition than the system partition (I know a whole different drive is much better, but I only have one HDD).
- Speeding up task switching and general data access. Providing there is enough RAM to handle all the data, not having to use the slow HDD for data access should be much faster in general. So far I haven't even reach 4 GB, so I think I'm okay for now. It's not as big a problem with SDDs (even if RAM is still faster), but I don't have an SDD.
- Forgetting something?

Cons:
- Apparently there are applications that NEED a page file to work properly. Would be the killer argument against it, but so far I haven't encountered any of them. Apparently Dawn of War II is one of them?
- Windows is unable to generate error logs without a page file. Doesn't bother me, as the system runs stable and I always could reenable the page file, in case of a reoccuring error where I'd need an error log.
- "Application has run out of RAM" and assorted similar errors. Again, I haven't even hit 50% of RAM usage with most of my applications used at once, so I don't see that happening anytime soon.
- Windows needs a page file to work properly. So far I haven't seen any problems and there are several people reporting running windows for years without a page file with far less RAM than I have now.

So with that long ass post, how do YOU do it and do you have any experience with it?

[DeadlyAvenger]

Yeah - the page file is mainly for systems with less RAM - when you run out of RAM, stuff that hasn't been used in a while gets pushed onto the page file on your HDD, then when it's needed it gets swapped out for other stuff.

You definitely don't need it to be 1.5x your RAM anymore - I think that was just for older systems with <= 2Gb RAM. I think windows just defaults to wanting to set it to 1.5x your RAM. Mine is currently set at the default automatic setting (which I'm about to change) which is 6Gb - but I'm going to change mine to 3 or 4 Gb

Just set your page file to 2-4Gb or something. Definitely change it so it does it manually - and set it to a fixed size (i.e. minimum 2048mb, max 2048mb).

I would definitely have some page file though - not just because there are some apps that need it - but there are files that are used so rarely when windows has booted up that there's no point them being stored in RAM all the time.

I can't really see any point in turning it off entirely, it's not like a few GB is really a big problem and it isn't going to make your system perform any worse.

[Lazzars]

i don't think i'll worry about hdd space with 3Tb of storage

[Power]

Well Sam the thing is - if there is swapping between RAM and HDD, then it will impact the performance negatively, just for the fact that the HDD (not an SDD and not terribly fast) is much slower than RAM. If I don't have a page file, nothing will be swapped, and everything stays in RAM and is accessed faster.

Currently there doesn't seem to be any swapping anyway, but the chance, that there will be is higher, if the swap file is there, since Windows also starts to swap before the RAM is full if the page file is available (allegedly).

Also from my earlier experience (when I had less RAM and was on XP) there was a significant difference between switching between a game and the desktop when having page file on and off as in, if it was on, it was much slower than when it was off (except when it crashed, because I didn't have enough RAM to keep all the data in it). I can't say if there is any difference with Win7, but since now I have enough RAM I don't see the need for the page file so far.

I'm typing this on an ancient PC with only 512 MB Ram (with integrated graphics, so there is only about 320 MB available) and I see the page file in action with every mouse click I make, but I don't see the need on my Win 7 PC right now.

[CruelCow]

I've heard internet legends that even if you don't need it, a disabled page file will slow down the pc.

IMHO: Just buy a cheap 1TB disk and put the page file there. Amazon has 2TB disks for 70 euros.

[Power]

Yeah, that's another thing, I don't really need another HDD. This one is big enough for all the stuff that I need (I stuffed it with games when I had to go offline for a months, but otherwise it's like 40% full) and I have an external HDD for media and other assorted storage. And even if I had the page file on a different physical drive, it's still slower than accessing RAM.

[DeadlyAvenger]

Yeah, that's another thing, I don't really need another HDD. This one is big enough for all the stuff that I need (I stuffed it with games when I had to go offline for a months, but otherwise it's like 40% full) and I have an external HDD for media and other assorted storage. And even if I had the page file on a different physical drive, it's still slower than accessing RAM.

But it only uses the page file for stuff that isn't needed...stuff stays in RAM until you run out of RAM and it puts the old stuff onto the page file. The page file management in windows 7 is pretty good - it won't just randomly put stuff you're using in the page file - and when you close apps that are using lots of RAM it probably brings stuff out of the page file before you need it.

[Power]

Still sounds like a choice between having it, which has some disadvantages (space, fragmentation and access speed) and not having it which has some advantages over having it (instant access to data and space saving).

I mean maybe this sounds stupid, but I don't see anything wrong with NOT having it, unless I run into a situation where it crashes or something?

[DeadlyAvenger]

Well yeah...if you run out memory by opening a few large applications - I have 6Gb of RAM and I've used all that up before it'll have nowhere to put it so you'll get an error or programs will start to crash.

Also - if some games/applications require it then they won't work/crash - so that's a disadvantage right there.

Yes - your hard drive is slower to read from than memory, but it doesn't treat the page file as extra RAM that's being used all the time - more of an overflow tank. If you run out of RAM it starts to fill up the page file, when there is free RAM it loads stuff back out and into memory (before it's needed by an application)

The fragmentation thing isn't really going to degrade performance - it treats it as a solid block and it'll just de-fragment around it. There's a chance there might be one of two files that are fragmented - but that's one or two files - it won't degrade the rest of your HDD performance.

And again - 2/3Gb on a HDD these days is nothing really.

While you're not seeing any reason to have it on, I can't see any reason for you to turn it off?

I think either way - it probably won't have much/any impact on your performance - but should you ever run out of memory things will start to crash and/or won't load if you don't have one. Heck - set it to 1Gb if you need to save space on your drive.

[Power]

Haha, thanks for humouring me, Sam. Please talk me into having a better performing PC.

Just one more thought, which really makes me curious now. WHY is there a possibility to turn off page file, which appears to be a bad idea, but no option to set another storage target for the Users folder?

Next topic: RAM drives!

[DeadlyAvenger]

Because you've been able to play around with the page file since before Windows XP but as far as I know - you've never really easily been able to move your documents / user folder around.