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[Leftism]

You could probably use the "ignore" admin option and make gScramble think player xyz is an "admin" and therefore cannot be scrambled. idk.

[scroggage]

You could probably use the "ignore" admin option and make gScramble think player xyz is an "admin" and therefore cannot be scrambled. idk.

I don't think that's what Lully means... I think she means the thing that stops people switching team after a scramble has just happened sometimes prevents conscientious players from joining an obviously weaker side.

[Lullaby]

You could probably use the "ignore" admin option and make gScramble think player xyz is an "admin" and therefore cannot be scrambled. idk.

I don't think that's what Lully means... I think she means the thing that stops people switching team after a scramble has just happened sometimes prevents conscientious players from joining an obviously weaker side.

Yes, thank you

[Leftism]

Ah, k.

On a slightly related note, the author of gScramble is discontinuing support for the plug-in. He said he is developing another plugin very similar to gScramble with much "cleaner" coding. Hopefully, it may include some features to address the issues raised in this thread!

[Teatime]

One of the problems - which has been mentioned already - is that the scramble plugin seems to be more suited for symmetrical maps than asymmetrical ones, like A/D or PL, where it's not unusual for the defender side to have more frags (and consequently perhaps more dominations).

[scroggage]

Today, me Tommy and Ringel and a bunch of randoms were playing Dustbowl. Nothing unusual there.

Teams are fine. We (BLU) are now attacking the second map. I do my "going huge" thing which usually fails, but this time works, I get behind the whole team and as soon as we had cap 1, I ninja'd the last.
Fair enough, it was my fault, I triggered the scramble (less than 120 seconds).

The random scramble then changes the teams so that I'm now on a BLU team with only two of us with scores in double figures. The map has been going a while. Needless to say, we couldn't get out of the spawn.
Surely even some very basic kind of points-based scrambling algorithm would produce better results...

[egg]

One of the problems - which has been mentioned already - is that the scramble plugin seems to be more suited for symmetrical maps than asymmetrical ones, like A/D or PL, where it's not unusual for the defender side to have more frags (and consequently perhaps more dominations).

That!

[DeadlyAvenger]

Just as an example...taking the sourcemod logs from Tuesday night:

L 08/10/2010 - 18:15:53: [gscramble.smx] steam roll detected
L 08/10/2010 - 18:15:54: [gscramble.smx] Scramble changed 21 client's teams

L 08/10/2010 - 20:03:14: [gscramble.smx] Average score diff detected
L 08/10/2010 - 20:03:14: [gscramble.smx] Scramble changed 24 client's teams

L 08/10/2010 - 21:26:54: [gscramble.smx] Average score diff detected
L 08/10/2010 - 21:26:55: [gscramble.smx] Scramble changed 23 client's teams

L 08/10/2010 - 22:35:57: [gscramble.smx] domination difference detected
L 08/10/2010 - 22:35:57: [gscramble.smx] Scramble changed 25 client's teams

Monday:

No Scrambles

Sunday:

L 08/08/2010 - 16:42:51: [gscramble.smx] Average score diff detected
L 08/08/2010 - 16:42:51: [gscramble.smx] Scramble changed 20 client's teams

L 08/08/2010 - 17:43:29: [gscramble.smx] domination difference detected
L 08/08/2010 - 17:43:30: [gscramble.smx] Scramble changed 26 client's teams

L 08/08/2010 - 18:38:08: [gscramble.smx] Average score diff detected
L 08/08/2010 - 18:38:08: [gscramble.smx] Scramble changed 24 client's teams

L 08/08/2010 - 20:06:32: [gscramble.smx] Frag ratio detected
L 08/08/2010 - 20:06:32: [gscramble.smx] Scramble changed 14 client's teams

L 08/08/2010 - 20:30:23: [gscramble.smx] Average score diff detected
L 08/08/2010 - 20:30:23: [gscramble.smx] Scramble changed 24 client's teams

L 08/08/2010 - 21:30:56: [gscramble.smx] domination difference detected
L 08/08/2010 - 21:30:57: [gscramble.smx] Scramble changed 23 client's teams

Hopefully that'll help you see that it doesn't scramble all the time, for the same reason or every map.

Also...is the annoyance over being scrambled because the teams are getting messed around? Or is it because it actually, on each of those occasions it was triggered, made the teams considerably worse?

It's obviously never going to be perfect as it can only work on the statistics it has available - so this is why you have the votescramble option available, or if there's enough un-rest an admin can force a scramble or change the map.

[scroggage]

I guess you can't fault it for getting the conditions wrong every now and again. Now I've started paying attention it's not too bad for mis-detecting.
It's just when the result is a far less balanced game that gets on my nerves. Sorry, I don't mean to whine about it but it has happened a few times recently.

[DeadlyAvenger]

One thing that would be helpful...is that the logs can only tell me so much so if there is a scramble - and it seems particularly un-reasonable then send me a message on the forums or on steam telling me the time it happened (and what caused it) and then I can see about tweaking the individual values.

Bear in mind though, that before this plugin - all scrambles were done randomly anyway.

[CruelCow]

Can we try one of the other scramble modes?

2 = Scoreboard Scores
3 = A ratio of score and connection time
4 = Player kill/death ratios


I'd also like to see votescramble being enabled even if an admin is present. Votes get through so rarely and if half of the server wants to scramble, there's probably a good reason.

[Rct33]

KDR seems like a good choice. A team with a high kdr on a demo, soldier, scout or heavy usually rolls. Though the medic is the only class which would affect this.

[scroggage]

Can we try one of the other scramble modes?

2 = Scoreboard Scores
3 = A ratio of score and connection time
4 = Player kill/death ratios


I'd also like to see votescramble being enabled even if an admin is present. Votes get through so rarely and if half of the server wants to scramble, there's probably a good reason.

Agreed, Cruely cakes.
Couple of times last night where balance was rather screwed and there was little we could do after the auto-balance made it worse!

[DeadlyAvenger]

On the 11th of August 2010, unbeknown to all of you (except the leaders). I made some changes to the scramble plugin. Since then it looks like either nobody has noticed the change, had any comments on the plugin or made any further suggestions.

The quote below details the changes made:

Old Settings:

Auto Scramble
The new plugin will perform an automatic scramble when one of the following conditions is met:
- A team wins with a frag ratio of 2 or greater
- A team wins a round in less than 120 seconds
- The average score difference between the players on the team is greater than 10
- One team has 5 more dominations than the other team
- If one team never captures the point in koth mode

Vote Scrambles
- Public players may now initiate a votescramble if no admin is present.
- 60% majority is needed to initiate a vote and 60% majority is required to scramble the teams
- There must be at least 6 players on the server for votes to work

General Scramble Settings
- Scrambles will not happen with less than 12 players
- If a scramble happens during setup, the setup timer is restored
- No-one has immunity  (not even me )
- If scramble happens during set-up, the medic's ubercharge is refilled
- All scrambles are done RANDOMLY
- Auto-scrambles will not happen two rounds in a row or twice during one round

New settings:

Auto Scramble
The new plugin will perform an automatic scramble when one of the following conditions is met:
- A team wins with a frag ratio of 3 or greater
- A team wins a round in less than 90 seconds
- The average score difference between the players on the team is greater than 15
- One team has 8 more dominations than the other team
- If one team never captures the point in koth mode

Vote Scrambles
- Public players may now initiate a votescramble if no admin is present.
- 60% majority is needed to initiate a vote and 60% majority is required to scramble the teams
- There must be at least 6 players on the server for votes to work

General Scramble Settings
- Scrambles will not happen with less than 12 players
- If a scramble happens during setup, the setup timer is restored
- No-one has immunity  (not even me )
- If scramble happens during set-up, the medic's ubercharge is refilled
- All scrambles are done on player score per minute
- Auto-scrambles will not happen two rounds in a row or twice during one round
- Removed the thing that blocks people from switching teams back

Note that this change was made *before* cruel, scroggage and rct posted about changing the scramble method - so you obviously hadn't noticed the change...

As you can see - I *do* take your feedback on board and I *am* willing to make changes if there's a problem.

[Millicent Bystander]

We appreciate the amazing work you do for the clan, do (Edit) don't get disheartened.  

I personally feel the scramble is usually pretty well balanced now.