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My CommunityForumPublicTechnicalTopic: Rage Building with Scan
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Author Topic: Rage Building with Scan  (Read 11970 times)
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DeadlyAvenger
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« on: July 15, 2010, 10:55:55 AM »

As many of you know - I've recently been having problems with my Razer Lachesis movement stuttering and then eventually stopping altogether.

I thought - it's still within warranty, I'll send it off to Scan for a replacement with this note attached:
Quote
My Razer Lachesis purchased January 2009 has recently started having problems with stuttering all the time and sometimes the mouse won't move at all. It used to do it occasionally and unplugging and then reconnecting the mouse would fix it - this is no longer the case.

The mouse was marked as 'No fault found' and received the following reply:
Quote
have used the mouse for the day, it responded when i moved it and both clicks register every time i go to use it

Not a great response - they obviously haven't tested it thoroughly and I never said there was an issue with the mouse registering clicks.

I then sent the following reply:
Quote
The mouse was reported as 'not faulty' by one of your support staff with the following comment:

"have used the mouse for the day, it responded when i moved it and both clicks register every time i go to use it"

Let me explain the problem I am having the mouse (which I also gave in my original support request - which was apparently ignored as the problems I had were not tested for) and why it is faulty. The problem is that after having used it for a while, the movement of the mouse starts to become stuttery - moving the mouse from side to side across the screen it stops/jumps across the screen. This problem gets progressively worse until at some point the mouse stops moving entirely. At no point does it fail to register clicks on any of the buttons, but it does not move.

The problem used to occur before, however then it was possible to disconnect and reconnect the mouse and the problem would disappear. Now, however, when the mouse is reconnected it continues in the same state - no movement but still registers mouse clicks.

Restarting the computer did not seem to have any effect - with the mouse still not functioning after a restart.

I have been using the latest drivers and firmware and have tried switching the mouse between different DPI and USB poll frequency settings however this does not make any difference.

The issue is not software related as I have tried using a different mouse which works perfectly well with no stuttering issues, and I have also recently done a format of my operating system and the issue still occurred both before and after the reinstall.

I can therefore only assume that the mouse hardware is faulty, which is the reason for sending it back to you. Hopefully you can appreciate that as this is a high-end gaming mouse, having a mouse that is stuttering or failing to move is not ideal and prevents me from playing games and it is also an extreme annoyance when using my PC for other tasks.

Regards,
Sam Sharp

To which I got:
Quote
Sam Sharp,

Hi, further to your email the only fault report we have from yourself is as follows:

My Razer Lachesis purchased January 2009 has recently started having problems with stuttering all the time and sometimes the mouse won't move at all. It used to do it occasionally and unplugging and then reconnecting the mouse would fix it - this is no longer the case.

The mouse was tested by our engineer and did not show any of the symptoms you have described.

My reply:
Quote
Which is why I sent a follow up email providing more details on the issues I was having following the mouse being described as not-faulty.

Can you please go through in detail the process that you have used to test the mouse as like I described - the fault may be described at intermittent and therefore your engineer may not have noticed the fault.

Them (fairly obviously from a template):
Quote
Sam Sharp,

Dear Sir/Madam

Further to your re-test request please provide details on how you would like us to re-test the item in question and provide any given timescales that the fault may appear during use.

Please be aware that if the RMA is not found to be faulty an additional re-test charge of £5 + VAT would be added to the current no fault found fee.

Please ensure all information is accurate and we will ensure that the re-test is carried out as quickly as possible.

Regards,

I'm getting really pissed off by this point.

Quote
Dear Michael,

I did not request a re-test - I merely asked what procedure by which you used to test that my product was 'non-faulty'. I certainly don't see why I should be paying a 'no fault found' fee if you havn't even tested it sufficiently - let alone another fee for you to test it again. I was speaking to my neighbour about it last night and his son has a Razer Lachesis mouse and I connected it to my PC to rule out my PC being at fault and had none of the issues that I was having with my mouse.

I repeat again the following reasons why the mouse is faulty:
- After a fairly extended period of time (a few hours or maybe even a day or two) the mouse movement begins to stutter slightly.
- It gets progressively worse until it sometimes stutters for a second or more
- Eventually the mouse stops moving altogether
- It has stuttered slightly since I had it, but never enough to warrant returning it as I could resolve the issue by reconnecting the mouse
- Now, even reconnecting the mouse does not resolve the issue as when reconnected, the mouse still does not move
- The mouse clicks still work

Why other components are not the cause of the issue:
- Using my other spare mouse is fine - no issues with stuttering at all at any time
- Using my neighbours mouse which is an identical model is fine
- The issue still occurs even after restarting my PC
- I have formatted my PC and the issue still occurs
- The issue is the same on ALL USB ports
- The issue has only recently started occurring and I have not made any changes to my hardware
- No overclock or overheating causing instability

Now forgive me - but I did a lot of testing of the mouse before I sent it to you as I didn't want to send it off in the first place but the problems I am having were too severe for someone who plays games hence why I sent it off to you.

If you can provide any other explanation as why I am having this issue with this mouse (and only this mouse as I have tried my neighbours and it is fine) that ISNT a fault with the mouse I would love to hear it.

Sam

Each of their responses has been on seperate day - so 3 days after they received it I'm still having to send them emails.

I don't think I have been unreasonable at all. I have ruled out pretty much everything and only sent it off to them once I had done so.
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Hzza
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2010, 11:05:21 AM »

Thats the problem with intermitant faults though I guess mate, they could test it for 3 days solid and not get anything, then when they send it back to you it'll go wrong within 10 minutes...not really sure what else you can do apart from getting them to retest it for 2/3 days solid which they're obviously going to charge you for...
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DeadlyAvenger
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2010, 11:31:46 AM »

Just sent an email to Razer directly, I'm hoping they'll override Scan's decision and make them send me a replacement Cheesy
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Hzza
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2010, 11:33:11 AM »

Is there anything on the Razer/Scan forums about similar faults?

edit - A quick glance around seem to show it may be a driver issue which has been solved by uninstalling the drivers, or a surface issue, ie your mousemat being too soft...I'd guess you'd already checked this stuff and its not 100% relevant, just putting it out there incase.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 11:45:49 AM by Hzza » Logged
Lazzars
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2010, 11:34:44 AM »

sounds like a case of the AA effect. its broken right until someone tries to fix it and then everything works perfectly fine, very irritating.
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DeadlyAvenger
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2010, 11:50:33 AM »

Is there anything on the Razer/Scan forums about similar faults?

edit - A quick glance around seem to show it may be a driver issue which has been solved by uninstalling the drivers, or a surface issue, ie your mousemat being too soft...I'd guess you'd already checked this stuff and its not 100% relevant, just putting it out there incase.


Havn't checked tbh...not likely to be a surface issue as I'm using a Razer Destructor mousemat so it's a good quality surface.

As for drivers...I tried uninstalling/reinstalling and I'm using the latest drivers. Plus - if that was the case then why didn't it fix it when I re-formatted?
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mandl


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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2010, 11:53:06 AM »

How long ago did you purchase said mouse from scan ?
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Hzza
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2010, 11:59:10 AM »

As for drivers...I tried uninstalling/reinstalling and I'm using the latest drivers. Plus - if that was the case then why didn't it fix it when I re-formatted?
Did you try running without the drivers at all? One of the pages I found said that they stopped the stuttering/freezing thing by not using the drivers at all. Might be worth trying to get scan to install the drivers?
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DeadlyAvenger
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« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2010, 12:05:35 PM »

It pays to be persistent Cheesy

Quote
Current status of your RMA: Awaiting Replacement / Credit

We can confirm your returned goods have now been tested by our technicians.

Looks like I'll get a replacement after all Cheesy
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mandl


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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2010, 12:11:48 PM »

It pays to be persistent Cheesy

Quote
Current status of your RMA: Awaiting Replacement / Credit

We can confirm your returned goods have now been tested by our technicians.

Looks like I'll get a replacement after all Cheesy

I was going to suggest that your next step was to say that under the distance selling regulations that you would like a replacement and failing that a full refund including all postage costs.

Which they allready know ,sounds like you'll get a replacment now .
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2010, 01:45:07 PM »

tbh they probably just gave in. Its cheaper for them to chuck the mouse in a probably not working second hand pile than spend man hours testing an intermittent problem. And you'd pushed them to the point they had to do something
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« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2010, 10:01:16 PM »

First of all its sucky that you have to pay for testing of non faulty equipment, but that said, USB devices are utter crap for testing for faults by connecting to other PCs, and I do believe them when they say they found no fault.

My G15 keyboard fails to be recognised at boot up, and have to unplug it and plug it back in everytime I turn on PC.  Other USB keyboards work perfectly fine in my PC.... but my G15 works fine in every other PC I've tested it in.  I've rebuilt my PC, reverted BIOS back to defaults, but nothing has an effect.

Fair play to scan for sorting this out in the end.... although you say you bought it in Jan 2009, how long is the warranty on em?
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DeadlyAvenger
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2010, 10:36:22 PM »

2 years. I did check before even thinking about sending it back. Smiley
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Junta
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2010, 12:44:10 AM »

@ MandL: Distance selling regulations apply *only* for a short time (for which you can demand your money back for simply not wanting / liking the item or it being faulty).

What deadly has (and I applaud the persistence) is a case of the goods being "unfit for purpose" and the reasonable expectation that they should last for more than one year.

I do wonder on what legal standpoint companies can try to charge for testing defective goods. Particularly since once you have sent them back, you can't really get your hands on the goods to prove the defect again.

As a side issue, I've noticed a very negative tone to Overclockers.co.uk and their terms and conditions now. Very draconian...mentions charges etc.

I use ebuyer as their RMA / returns policy is fair and not over the top compared to some companies. I'm disappointed in Scan.. they're meant to be a good company and Sam should not have had to deal with them the way he did.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 12:46:41 AM by Junta » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2010, 12:56:26 AM »

I had to send my PSU back to Scan last year, took them ages to get me my replacement.
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