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[r007]

Seeing as I'm pretty fed up with my system choking on TF2 when it really shouldn't... UPGRADE TIME!
This will probably result in some major juggling of computers (or components) around the family, so in hopes of your good advice I think I will post the whole deal. (I know this is a post of Teatime-esque proportions... Sorry.)

Here's what we have:
------------------------
#1: My dad's work box.
IBM Netvista M41 (or somesuch) Slim; P3 600, a Gig of RAM, <100G hard drive, no notable graphics card.

#2: My box at my parents'
FujitsuSiemens cheap-ass, Core2 (Duo I think), 2G ram, 500G Disk, OEM GF9x00 128M or somesuch

#3: My box at uni
MEDION box, Pentium D 3GHz, 3G RAM, 250G internal disk, 1,75T external disks, GF8800 GT 512M

#5 to 7:
A backup box (Linux, Raid1 over 2 1T disks) and 2 Laptops of no concern here.

A little History:
-----------------
A friend of mine at some point grabbed a bunch of #1-style boxes from eBay, for 40 bucks I just couldn't say no and replaced my dad's antique work compy with that. That one is now becoming annoyingly slow for my dad who in turn becomes annoying towards me.
When (I think) 2 years ago my then-box-at-my-parents' broke (A7V133 + Athlon 1.6GHz) we bought #2. This box has a VIA chipset and SEVERE issues (Memtest OK, Graphics card burn-in OK, Prime95 OK). It just freezes up in the middle of anything when the chipset feels like it.
#3 was bought when I started studying some 5+ years ago and is the oldest, but most reliable machine here.

The requirements:
--------------------
A) I want a box that does TF2 without too much complaint. I'm talking an absolute minimum of 20fps here.
B) My uni box has to run Hack OSX.
C) My dad needs a more recent (snappier) work box.
D) The freezing of #2 has to stop.
E) I would like to occasionally play a game on #2.

The Plan:
----------
Since I am pretty sure my TF2 issues stem from my mainboard, I'll just get a new one. Since I'm staying in the LGA775 class I can swap components quite freely I hope.

The requirements for OSX in almost-native mode are: ICH10, ALC889, and SSE3 capability. This works out to these Boards: MSI P43-C51, GA-EP45-UD3R (being phased out)

#2 (sans board) goes into the Athlon case with the new board, swap the graphics cards, and will become my uni machine. #3 replaces #2. This should solve A,B,D. I think I can live with E only at 9fps.

Into the case of #2 goes an ION board for my dad's new work machine, which I think is the most cost-effective way of solving C. Alternatively he'll go and buy a new laptop and use that as work machine.

Your task, should you accept it
----------------------------------
Well, fleshing it out into writing and juggling the options around already helped my internal decision process. If you want, you can call me a mad computer scientist (see what i did there?), amuse yourself on the fact that I've used #1 and #2 throughout this post regardless of their connotations, or you might do something productive and have a better idea, which you would then tell me.

Thanks for your attention.


tl;dr: suggest me a cheap board that runs OSX.

[Vitalis]

Yeah, ok I read that and it's lacking in questions…
What are we doing again? Who am I? What?


Surely the easiest way to make an old computer work better would be a full reformat? (But I'm sure you knew that )

But yeah I really don't get what the forums being asked? You seem to have planned everything out?

[Hzza]

But yeah I really don't get what the forums being asked? You seem to have planned everything out?

tl;dr: suggest me a cheap board that runs OSX.

edit - Sorry r007 mate, I'm shit with this kind of crap...I can point you in Chaos' direction though . Also, if its just TF2 you're wanting to play have you tried using an FPS boost script? Makes the game look not as sexy but can give quite big boosts (talking +30-50fps in some cases).

[Vitalis]

Yeah, I reread all of it to find that Hzza!
I just couldn't believe he wrote an entire essay for that one question!?

[r007]

Yeah, ok I read that and it's lacking in questions…

I know, sorry. Erm...

Do you think this is a reasonable plan?
Would you do something different given the options?
Any objections against ION boards? Do you have a build that's cheaper than an ION (at comparable features)?

Surely the easiest way to make an old computer work better would be a full reformat?

Tried that on #3, didn't work. Hence the new board idea, the rest just popped up in my head in the wake of that.
#2 still awaits a reformat to Win7, but I expect little to no improvement there as well.

[r007]

Also, if its just TF2 you're wanting to play have you tried using an FPS boost script?

No change even with the crappiest looking TF2 you can imagine. These scripts mostly help for shitty graphics cards, which does not seem to be the bottleneck in my setup, judging by the experiments.

[Hzza]

Also, if its just TF2 you're wanting to play have you tried using an FPS boost script?

No change even with the crappiest looking TF2 you can imagine. These scripts mostly help for shitty graphics cards, which does not seem to be the bottleneck in my setup, judging by the experiments.

Fair enough, thought it might be worth a shout . Good luck maaaaaate.

[Vitalis]

Ok this is the cheapest board with ICH10 I've found so far, no mention of SSE3 or ALC889 however.

I'll keep looking.

Edit-
Carried on looking, then for ALC889, couldn't find anything but ALC888 until ~£100 range where I found ALC1200 =/

[Junta]

Try this:

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-220-GI

Cheap and cheerful, limited on memory slots and max memory size, but will support a max of 8GB in 2 x 4 GB ram modules (when needed) and allows me to run what I need just fine.

I bought this last year because I thought my previous socket 775 mobo was causing issues (wasn't the case after all - software issue in the end!)

Also supports all Core2 duo / quad processors that I'm aware of. The list of supported processors is pretty extensive on the documentation.

Seems a good quality product and nice to have a smaller form factor as well. Reasonably good layout.

Ignore me.. forgot the native OSX requirements

SSE3 - that is processor based extension not motherboard surely?

Edit: After a check, I agree with Vitalis, you're looking at a minimum of a P43 or P45 motherboard for those "extras" you're looking for. You wont find the ICH10 on anything lower spec than those.

For ALC889 - you're probably going to be better off beating it with a dedicated soundcard or something? This is a Realtek integrated chip.

Sadest thing: I sold my old MSI socket 775 motherboard to Rippy, and I think that it meets your requirements (P45 chipset, ICH10 and ALC889 maybe).

http://eu.msi.com/index.php?func=prodmbspec&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=170&cat3_no=&prod_no=1725

[r007]

Apple uses the 889 in their builds, hence these are the least hassle to set up driver-wise. (They Just Work™). Most PC boards in that range have an ALC888, which is a bit more fiddling but should work nonetheless...

SSE3 - that is processor based extension not motherboard surely?

Indeed it is, hence the plan to use the Core2. (OSX does run on my non-SSE3 processor, SSE3 gets emulated and I'm not sure I want that, speed-wise...)

For ALC889 - you're probably going to be better off beating it with a dedicated soundcard or something? This is a Realtek integrated chip.

Yes. I'd probably be better off just using an external sound device, preferably one that I can also use my big fat condenser mic with, for mobile recording... But that's money I'd rather not spend right now. (Thanks for the suggestion though!)

Ignore me..

How could I ever?

Also a big thanks to Vitalis for spending that effort on finding a suitable board. Much appreciated mate!

[Zarf]

Yeah, ok I read that and it's lacking in questions…

I know, sorry. Erm...

Do you think this is a reasonable plan?
Would you do something different given the options?
Any objections against ION boards? Do you have a build that's cheaper than an ION (at comparable features)?

Surely the easiest way to make an old computer work better would be a full reformat?

Tried that on #3, didn't work. Hence the new board idea, the rest just popped up in my head in the wake of that.
#2 still awaits a reformat to Win7, but I expect little to no improvement there as well.

So which machines have to be able to play TF2 in the end? Just the machine at Uni, or both the machine at uni and your parents?
Are you currently able to run OSX on your uni machine?

ION/Atom wise i wouldn't bother, they arn't much faster in practice than your dads existing P3 (iirc Atom is pretty much a faster clocked P3 but with less cache and no Out of Order architecture)
Either let him get a laptop (personally I recommend getting a Dell with the full 3 year next day cover, saves me so much hassle in my own family now that I can just tell them to phone Dell, and they come out the next day and fix it)
Failing that pick up something on eBay, like an Athlon X2 system, Complete systems go on ebay for around 60 euros (at least in the UK), but you should be able to come close buying the components separately.
In fact you may want to get two, it's probably a better option for your parents than giving them your pentium D.

[r007]

Just the machine at uni, since this is where I spend most of my gaming time. For other occasions there is still my laptop (MacBook), which handles the occasional TF2 just fine.

Thanks for your opinion on Atom. So far I only have one in that Linux backup box, which is not doing much computation-wise, just had to be silent and power-saving.

I think the Dell Lappy is the way to go for my dad, preferably one with docking station, that would solve most of my issues there.

[Zarf]

I think the Dell Lappy is the way to go for my dad, preferably one with docking station, that would solve most of my issues there.

Seriously, they are a godsend. Especially when i was at Uni it saved me from trying to give remote diagnosis over the phone and making train trips back home.
It's a couple of hundred quid, which isn't particularly bad value - you can almost guarantee something breaks in three years.

[r007]

I know. Last year I've worked for the Max Planck computer science institute. They mostly use Dell hardware, and I mean LOADS of Dell Hardware. Hence I know what I'll be getting myself into. It's quite certain that something breaks with those laptops, but Dell were always quick to fix it as well. The downtime was never more than 2 days or so.

[Rct33]

fail snip