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[scroggage]

I'm not sure that it's too powerful, more just that the added power of the engie makes games more likely to end in stalemate.

I was hoping they'd boost the flexibility of the engie, not make him stronger. Stronger engies lead to being stuck in one place, being stuck in one place leads to spam, spam leads to randomness and a lack of progression.

I think you're right, but I think they have added to his versatility too. I think that's the problem, he can now be effective at all ranges and with all "front line" situations... he can help out in a pitched battle far better than he ever could before.

The wrangler is basically an upgrade for the pistol... just too good imo. The fact you can just bring it out when your sentry is under fire, and the sentry is immediately 3 times harder to kill is a bit silly.

The result is more stalemates than usual. Which makes every scramble that the plugin pulls off seem weirder, it never seems like anyone is winning.

[egg]

I'm not sure that it's too powerful, more just that the added power of the engie makes games more likely to end in stalemate.

I was hoping they'd boost the flexibility of the engie, not make him stronger. Stronger engies lead to being stuck in one place, being stuck in one place leads to spam, spam leads to randomness and a lack of progression.

I think you're right, but I think they have added to his versatility too. I think that's the problem, he can now be effective at all ranges and with all "front line" situations... he can help out in a pitched battle far better than he ever could before.

The wrangler is basically an upgrade for the pistol... just too good imo. The fact you can just bring it out when your sentry is under fire, and the sentry is immediately 3 times harder to kill is a bit silly.

The result is more stalemates than usual. Which makes every scramble that the plugin pulls off seem weirder, it never seems like anyone is winning.

I dissagree.

The wrangler makes you VERY vulnerable to spies.  1 stab n your sg does nothing for 3 seconds... more than enough time for a lame spy to sap all your shit.

Also at long range you have to be good at aiming (the assisted aim on it aint that great).  Finally unless you have a quick weapon script, its not good to simply scroll though yur weapons as going from gun to melee goes over the wrangler so you always disable your gun when changing weapons, otherwise you have to cycle through the pdas.

Its not the engi is more powerful, its just that you have to learn how to beat him again.

[scroggage]

Finally unless you have a quick weapon script, its not good to simply scroll though yur weapons as going from gun to melee goes over the wrangler so you always disable your gun when changing weapons, otherwise you have to cycle through the pdas.

You could just press '1' to get the shotgun out, or '3' to get your melee out... which is what I always do anyway. Requires no scripts.

The wrangler makes you VERY vulnerable to spies.  1 stab n your sg does nothing for 3 seconds... more than enough time for a lame spy to sap all your shit.

Yeah, wrangling engies pay less attention to their surroundings. But it was getting pretty difficult (at least on WDG server) to take out an engie nest single-handedly as a spy, due to the teamwork and good spy-checking that goes on. Also, new things like the Homewrecker allow a spy's attack to be more easily beaten. It's just kind of a small shift back in the spy's advantage that doesn't really take care of any of his main obstacles to destroying a nest.
Also what's lame about the spy doing his job? :/

Also at long range you have to be good at aiming (the assisted aim on it aint that great).

This kind of misses the point, though... before, engies were literally useless at very long range. Now they can lay down oppressive spam fire on choke points that are miles away. They can keep people away from windows with sentries built in any location... they don't have to take into account the automatic range as much as they used to.

Its not the engi is more powerful, its just that you have to learn how to beat him again.

Well, the engi actually is fundamentally more powerful, because now every engi, regardless of setup, can move his stuff. It is a change I welcome, but it does mean engies, especially attacking ones, can deploy far quicker than they used to be able to.

Overall I'm quite enjoying the update, but it really has changed the face of TF2 quite a bit and it's taking some getting used to, for me at least.

[Lazzars]

Also at long range you have to be good at aiming (the assisted aim on it aint that great).

This kind of misses the point, though... before, engies were literally useless at very long range. Now they can lay down oppressive spam fire on choke points that are miles away. They can keep people away from windows with sentries built in any location... they don't have to take into account the automatic range as much as they used to.

this is what i think is so gamechanging about the new update, an engy can now stand far father away from the action than he previously needed to be and still be an effective deterrent. it means that a team sometimes has to push through a very tough choke point but not be able to destroy the sentry by the end of the attack simply because of the range its at, and with the shield it can sometimes be damn near impossible to kill one .

wide open attacks used to be the area for snipers but now its sentries with machine guns and rockets

[Millicent Bystander]

Managed to get on as engie for quite a while last night, got the shotty and crafted the wrench.  Not overwhelmed with the wrench but the shotgun has the potential to be awesome, once you get the crits you get to do as much damage as a rocket launcher with every hit.  Just wish I had 1 more shot before I had to unload.  Still need a couple more achievements before I get the wrangler.

Oh, I really like the ability to move buildings, It changes the whole way the game is played.  I forsee a nerf on moving sentries though, maybe giving them a longer build time

[CruelCow]

Yeah, before there were a few points per map, specifically designed for sentries. Now pretty much every position is a valid sentry position.

[Junta]

Like the idea that engy is more useful now. Better able to defend himself too.

Engy now better on attack - more so than ever before. Wrangler's long range is quite epic.

I stick to my original comments though: too many engineers = broken game.

I also agree with one of the regs (forget who) - there are fewer teleporters about now. Everyone focuses on guns first and teleporters second.

[Teatime]

Oh, I really like the ability to move buildings, It changes the whole way the game is played.  I forsee a nerf on moving sentries though, maybe giving them a longer build time

I like it, too, but implementing this without proper trade-off was a major mistake. I think it really screws with that balance that an engy can pop up from behind a corner and drop a lvl3 sentry within a few seconds.
IMNSHO moving a building should downgrade it one level.

And while I like the Wrangler I think the shield needs to be nerfed so it doesn't absorb that much damage.

[DeadlyAvenger]

One of the things I noticed about moving sentries is that if you move a lvl3 sentry it immediately deploys with the full level 3 sentry health - so even though while it's building it looks like a level 1 (and could be killed with 1 or two rockets), it then continues to upgrade to level 3 and then it kills you and you have no chance.

I like the fact you can pack it up with no penalty - as it means you can quickly evacuate it from a firefight and then put it up and repair it somewhere else.

The tradeoff is that you're vulnerable to everything while you carry it because you can't shoot - plus I think you move slower while carrying it too.

[CruelCow]

Slower than a heavy

[Twiggeh]

Plus if you die you lose your sentry as well.

[CruelCow]

By the way. Remember those lvl3 mini-sentries valve fixed? They fixed it by making every single building explode when you switch wrench. Learned that the hard way when my teleporter disappeared

[LtMama]

I noticed something, not sure if it's true or not, havent has a chance to test it. I think if you shoot the box the engi is carrying when he's moving his gear, it explodes resulting in instadeath.

[Twiggeh]

I've been wondering what the box death things were!

[DeadlyAvenger]

I've been wondering what the box death things were!

I thought that was if you kill the engineer - it kills his sentry too?