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December 2025

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[Nineblade]

Sigh, this is a rubbish universe of its own, far beyond my limited comprehension ...

Don't worry Tea, you're not young enough to know everything

[discordance]

For a little comparison many other things have warnings. Sentries make a noise and take enough time to start firing and for the rockets to impact you should be able to limp off. Snipers have sniper dots. Spies make a noise when decloaking to backstab you. Rockets are pretty noisy and visible (altho admittedly there is the odd spam rocket that surprises people). But as a demo it is possible to deliberately place a trap that denies all warning to the victim. Hence why its cheap

[Finaldeath]

I thought someone said "why are demoment limited to 1 competitively?" and the answer was "Because on the majority of maps there are two corridors. Demomen can effectively shut down one by themselves, meaning the game would stalemate if there were two of them".

Makes sense to me - it'd get boring fast in other words - defence in the game is overpowered enough.

[egg]

For a little comparison many other things have warnings. Sentries make a noise and take enough time to start firing and for the rockets to impact you should be able to limp off. Snipers have sniper dots. Spies make a noise when decloaking to backstab you. Rockets are pretty noisy and visible (altho admittedly there is the odd spam rocket that surprises people). But as a demo it is possible to deliberately place a trap that denies all warning to the victim. Hence why its cheap

You can check ANY place for stickies......

Simply shoot the ground with a rocket and any stickies in a mile radius will fall off walls.... This is highly annoyin as a demo as your 'traps' are often sprung just from random spam.  

If you are killed by a trap that you have no idea about then you havent checked it properly....

[discordance]

what about door traps where the stickies are above the door. my rockets dont go that way

[egg]

what about door traps where the stickies are above the door. my rockets dont go that way

Rockets hitting floor will make them drop. Trust me they fall off at anything.... it's bloody annoying.

The only plus is that not everyone notices them falling down

[TheBeau]

what about door traps where the stickies are above the door. my rockets dont go that way

Rockets hitting floor will make them drop. Trust me they fall off at anything.... it's bloody annoying.

The only plus is that not everyone notices them falling down

This.

[Teatime]

Hey, sticky traps comprise most of the success I have these days.
Don't spoil that for me.

@Egg: Sadly your advice only works for a single class. So I guess the rest better accept their fate

[TheBeau]

Which is fair enough, Spy up against a pyro at point blank? Not much you can do.

Scout up against a Demo at badlands spire? Not much you can do.

It's only fair!

[mr craig]

About the mid range thing I think demo is not king. That does go to soldier. Mid range stickie you have to charge up your launcher by which time the soldier has already rocket jumped you and killed you as well as the other 2 demos that are behind you trying to do the same thing.

Demo is awsome for one thing. Area denial. I have my highest score on tf2 (47) as demo because of area denial. Yes it was spam. yes it was cheap ass kills all the time but it works so well. Look at nineblade he has no aim, but he is pretty decent because he knows where people come from and where people are going. So he lobs a nade or a stickie that direction and more often than not pow your dead.

Soldier is the uber class because it does things so much better. Yes the fallout health is more than demo but then again soli has more health to start with. I honestly believe a team of solis will wipe the floor against a team of demo. Just opinion because at close range and medium they are just so much easier to aim. (no loop of bombs, no judement of how far too shoot stickies). Basic point and shoot rockets win the day.

Ima stick my neck out and say put the best soli we have (cheez,emu) against the best demo we have (nine, john, egg) and see who wins. I rekon more often than not the soli will be victorious

[TheBeau]

Lol ok, but you've kind of contradicted yourself there and totally missed when of the demo's best abilities, his jump.

On badlands, the demo is at mid in 15 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZSgz5VLwgs&feature=related

It takes a soldier, speed jumping, 20 seconds to get to house: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6eek-bvxAs&feature=related

So with him the demoman at mid a good 7 or 8 seconds earlier than the soldier(s) he can shut the area completely off, add to the fact his nade spam has no damage fallout he can just sit tight, shut one side down and concentrate spam on the other side. Now, what can the soldier do? Jump? Losing proposition, 1 nade is going to make him an easy finish because he already rj'd, so a stray sticky or pipe means kaboom. The only problem the demoman will have against soldiers, is pushing. Even then, with his sticky throws he does more damage than any other class at mid range, making him the king. So what if the soldier jumps, if he's taken a hit, he's going down. It's also, in my experience as a demo, very easy to airshot with pipes.

Tbh the only time a Soldier can safely jump against a demo is if he's caught out in the open (badlands choke). Also what do you mean by the soldier can do things, better? Demo jumps faster, can fight two battles at the same time (can block one area with stickies, fight in another with pipes), does more damage in general, has less damage falloff, is the king of map control, runs faster than the soldier, can break up ubers more effectively and arguably is a better uber target. Things the soldier is better at are fighting scouts and close range. Which is pretty useless becase a team of demos will have the entire team at mid stickying up the place which, added to their indirect no damage falloff pipe spam, will mean that firstly the soldiers won't get to mid without dying, won't take mid ever and are in a losing position at the chokepoints. (not so much badlands, but definetly granary). If we're talking an entire team of demos vs soldiers then tbh I can't imagine soldiers ever winning if the demos are half decent.

[mr craig]

Like I said I kinda put my neck out there. Would be cool to see which team would win. Obviously the demo would have to be decent against a decent soldier team. Could be another chance for another uber class match? Also on the servers I find soldiers are more commonly top than the demos. Ye like I said demos are great at holding points. But a soli just has so much fire power. For defending 2 entrances at a time I am going to have to say its a no go. After the stickies been blown on the first entrance you can only defend 1 entrance if people are comming through 2 entrances. You can reload etc and respam the entrance but that means not being able to spam the other side. Ye I know soli can literally only do 1 and on maps there is normally more than 1 choke point. (execption being hydro). i would like to put it to the test. Any decent demos up for it?

[TheBeau]

Not to insult anyone but the demomen on most pubs are usually wank. It's one of the (almost) totally skill based classes.

If you look at competitive tf2 atm, the emphasis in europe is keeping the demoman alive so he can do damage, he is the spreadhead of attack on the scene and he is still excellent at defending and map control. The fact is he is so versatile and powerful in all his roles that he's going to beat out classes which are average in most fields. The only reason i mention the competitive scene is because it is where the smartest people in the game figure out the best ways to do things.

One thing you're right about though, is 1 v 1. If the map is suitably balanced, I think the soldier will have the upperhand because of his hitscan shotgun, the demoman can get a good hit but struggle to finish the soldier off due to his health, whilst the soldier can do a lot of damage relatively easily and reliably.

As for a test, I too would like to do it but I'm not sure if I'll play for the Soldier team or the Demo team!

[Nineblade]

I think Basing and Mode would put up a good fight against good sollys. Let's make a training vid of the battle

[DeadlyAvenger]

what about door traps where the stickies are above the door. my rockets dont go that way

Rockets hitting floor will make them drop. Trust me they fall off at anything.... it's bloody annoying.

The only plus is that not everyone notices them falling down

I usually just run through and hope the demo wasn't looking. Doesn't work