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My CommunityForumPublicTechnicalTopic: Help with overclocking!
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DeadlyAvenger
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« Reply #90 on: December 06, 2009, 04:45:29 PM »

It might be that it's not just your CPU voltage it is upping when on auto - your northbridge voltage may also need some slight adjustment (as that is also linked to your front side bus (the big wire that connects your cpu -> northbridge -> memory -> gfx card etc.).

Try increasing your northbridge voltage a little.

It's also best to do the whole thing slowly and in small increments. I.e. start at stock with manually set voltages - increase your FSB a little, see if it boots. If it boots and is stable under load (i.e. prime) and the temps are ok then go back and up it a little more...keep going until it doesn't boot then increase your voltages a little until it boots - then repeat the process over again.

It could also be that it's your memory that's failing as you're overclocking that as well and that requires further tweaking to the timings.. (the delays you listed) and also the memory voltage.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 04:47:08 PM by DeadlyAvenger » Logged

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« Reply #91 on: December 06, 2009, 05:31:56 PM »

Okay so I went back a bit and found a starting point where the system boots to windows on manual voltage settings. Interesting tidbit: the vCore being reported by CPU-Z and Hardware Monitor is exactly 0.05 lower than what I set it in BIOS - might be the reason why it didn't work when I put it to 1.2 and 1.25v earlier. Right now I'm on 2.7 GHz with RAM running at 375MHz (x3). When it was overclocked earlier it was running 412 MHz, but I might have to upper it's voltage when I approach that value.

Anyway vCore is 1.2v right now, I'm on 9x300, we know it can go 9x330 at least, with the right voltage, so let see if I can get there. Will see if it goes up without upping the FSB voltage and then will see if I can get higher clock rate from there. Thanks!

EDIT: Yep, still boots without any voltage changed, apart for the CPU. I guess somewhere between here and 9x330 I will need to up some stuff, though. Will try and see if I can go any lower with the CPU voltage, then try to up the CPU clock when I found that lowest value.

EDIT2: The lowest voltage to boot into windows is 1.1375v in BIOS (which is apparently 1.088v actually). It was interesting to see windows fail at various stages of bootup as I went through the available steps in BIOS. This one JUST manages to boot up, it probably will crash as soon as I give the CPU something to crunch on, so I guess I will have to go higher from here, but it's good to know where I can start. Smiley

EDIT 3: Yup, crashed as soon as I fired up Prime.. oh well, search goes on. Cheesy This is fun in some perverted kind of way. I just hope I don't mess up my windows installation by crashing it so much.

EDIT 4: Arrived at the voltage level, where I can run the Prime torture test for 30 minutes without any errors. Will remove all voltage bonuses except the vCore now and test again. If it works, will up the CPU clock rate next. 2.7 GHz is currently stable (at 1.15v).
« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 07:02:51 PM by Power » Logged
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« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2009, 09:51:07 PM »

Alright, after a lot of testing I'm finally at the point, where the automatic BIOS overclock was a couple of hours ago. Yay? I started at 2.7 GHz (9x300) and figured out working voltage settings for every step from there up till 2.97 GHz with increments of 10 MHz with each step. From 9x300 through 9x310 and 9x320 there was a recognizable pattern. I had to up the vCore by about 0.025v for each step for it to work (tested with 30 minutes of Prime torture test for each setting). 9x300 actually worked with 1.20v in BIOS (1.15v reported by the tools) and it was under 50° at full crunch mode, so it looked pretty good.

Anyway, then I hit the point which the automatic overclock had. To make it boot at all I had to give 0.2v bonus to every available position in BIOS - since I'm not sure what every position does, I just upped every one of them. The most cruical probably were the RAM voltage and the FSB voltage. Will have to test it out later, I'm freaking exhausted. The pattern with the vCore didn't work out either as I had to up the voltage by a couple of steps this time with it finally working at 1.3v in BIOS (only 1.25v reported by the tool, is this indicating some problems with my PSU???). To compare, the last one was 1.25, with 1.2v reported at 2.88 GHz (9x320). I am a bit confused by this fact, but as long as it is working, I don't really mind it.

Okay, so currently I've got it stable at 2.97GHz (9x330MHz) with 1.3v vCore in BIOS and +0.2v on RAM, FSB, PCI-E and MCH (hope I'm not forgetting something). RAM is running with multiplier 2.5 at 412.5 MHz with timings unchanged throughout this whole ordeal and identical to the settings that the automatic overclock set it to (also identitcal with SPD apparently). Oh.. just as I'm typing this, one of the Prime threads aborted with an error after 26 minutes. It usually happened much earlier and was an indication that I have to add more to vCore... so it's NOT stable yet.

Since I'm at 58° with full load now, my questions would be:
- is it worth it trying to up the vCore even more?
- Do I risk damaging my RAM if I run it with 2v instead of 1.8v permanently? It shows 1.2v on CPU and 2v on RAM (which is quite high, isn't it?). What about the other components?
- How much more voltage can the CPU take? In BIOS it says 1.3 would be the standard vCore, but do they mean in BIOS (which it is at now) or the actual voltage, which is apparently 0.1v below that?
- What about that running RAM at the same as stock speed by manipulating the multiplier thingy? Is it something I should try?
- Would I be able to run at this speed with less voltage on RAM if I would make the timings less agressive? If so, what timings would I need? In BIOS there is two modes, the first one is on right now, the second one has slower timings, but I also could change the timings manually if needed.
- Anything else to try?

I mean in worst case, I still have settings for 2.88GHz that were stable, but I'd like and see if I can go any further. Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Confirmed that MCH and PCI-E voltage had nothing to do with it, it's now back to normal. Also, putting the FSB voltage back to normal didn't prevent the system from booting. So it's just about RAM, which is still on 2.0v.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 10:08:16 PM by Power » Logged
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« Reply #93 on: December 06, 2009, 09:58:08 PM »

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« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2009, 10:10:01 PM »


Awwwwwwwwwwwww! Smiley
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« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2009, 10:18:03 PM »

You're having RAM issues. Overclocking RAM doesn't actually offer any noticeable gain for anything. So try to have that as "stock" as you can. That should relieve any problems you have there.

1.45 is the MAX vCore for 65nm chips. I wouldn't go above that.. but if you do go that high, make sure you have adequate cooling.. Air isn't good enough.. as long as your below 60degC and 1.4 vcore, you're good!

Other than that, keep the RAM lowish (around stock speed) and carry on upping the fsb/vcore as you have been..
Once you found the right spot, you'll know.. it's much about ability and feel.. if you don't think you can go higher, you usually cant!
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« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2009, 10:32:25 PM »

Again Jordan, thanks. Dropped the RAM multiplier to 2.40, so it runs at 396 MHz instead of 412.5 now and was able to drop the RAM voltage back to 1.8 again, without the system failing to boot. Prime test is running right now, let's see how it goes. There is only one multiplier option below that and that's 2.0, which would bring my RAM very close to it's stock speed at current FSB speed (660 vs 667 MHz), but for some reason, the system failed to boot when choosing 2.0 multiplier with 1.8v voltage. Not logical, as 2.4 multiplier with 1.8v works, but what do I know - will try it with 2.0 multiplier and 1.9v later and see if it changes anything.

Will also try to drop vCore a bit, to see if previous issues were because of the RAM problems if this test works out. Don't think I will ever switch to watercooling, but if I manage to make it work at 2.97 I guess I'll be pretty happy. Didn't bench anything yet, but it should be at least a bit noticable in the benchmarks, right? Will compare later, when I found the sweet spot. Judging from your post, the temps should become a problem long before I hit the vCore limit.

EDIT: Looks like you were right, too. 30 minutes without an error this time and all on stock voltage for RAM. Will let it run a little longer, then will go back to the vCore reducing until it crashes. Then go from there.

EDIT 2: One hour, no problems. Interesting.

EDIT 3: Putting it on multiplier 2.0 with stock voltage also worked this time, dunno why it didn't go past POST the first time around. It's very close to 333 now (330 MHz). Let's see how it goes.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 11:30:21 PM by Power » Logged
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« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2009, 11:38:15 PM »

you seem to be doing well atm..

some things to watch out for-
Make sure your timings are correct (be it stock or otherwise) it'll cause your boot to fail. Next thing to do once your confident is to give it a 12hour stability test so run prime in blend mode overnight Smiley
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« Reply #98 on: December 07, 2009, 12:51:33 AM »

Well I put it on 333MHz so RAM is basically not overclocked at all at the moment, still no luck on being able to go below 1.3 for vCore, one of Prime's threads failed after about 5 minutes each time. Currently I have the timing on RAM being set by SPD (at least I think that's what the BIOS setting does), though it's a bit weird. BIOS has a row with numbers which apparently represent what SPD values would be, but those look different each time the RAM clock changes. The current numbers are also different from what the SPD tab in CPU-Z is reporting (it actually reports 200 MHz as RAMs clock?). It is very old very chip RAM, so I don't think it's all that great anyway. Here some pics if it helps:


If SPD means what I think it means (values at which RAM is guaranteed to work), then my RAM should actually run at 200Mhz? Running it on 333MHz would be a big overclock, wouldn't it? I think it's been running like that since I put it there...


Anyway right now I'm on 3GHz at 1.3v vCore (still being reported as 1.2 - 1.22v, by CPU-Z and CPUID respectivelly, any idea why, Jordan?) with RAM on stock clock at 1.8v. Let's hope this works out.

Seeing a big difference between what I set vCore to be in BIOS and what tools are reporting afterwards, would I track the BIOS setting or the tool readings when considering the vCore limit? Because to get the tools to report 1.4v I'll probably will have to set it to about 1.5v or something in BIOS. Also, the vCore seems to change throughout a run by about 0.2v. Say when I boot it says 1.22, but them I start Prime and it drops to 1.2 after a while.

Temperature is at about 55° so I guess if this works out, I only get one more step, before I hit 60°. Will probably not reach the 3.2 GHz point, but it should be alright at 3 GHz anyway. Smiley
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« Reply #99 on: December 07, 2009, 01:39:22 AM »

yea looking at your results so far, I'd go for a stable 3.0 before going for a 3.2 oc Smiley

also. BIOS = True vCore | Software = Interpretation of True vCore
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« Reply #100 on: December 07, 2009, 10:39:19 AM »

Was running a torture test last night. One worker errored out after about two hours. Gah! Will try upping the vCore some more when I get home, but I guess 3 GHz will be my limit, if I even manage to get it stable. Don't think it's worth it to go to 3.2 if I'm so close to the vCore and temp limits already.

What about the SPD readings from my RAM, though? Might RAM be the reason why it's failing, because it's running on 333MHz instead of 200MHz? If so, there is no way I can put RAM to 200MHz, I am already at 1:1 FSB:RAM ratio, so I'd need to lower the FSB considerably to even get close to it. Should I switch to 2GB PC-6400 RAM instead?

What would I have to try next? More vCore or maybe slightly overvoltaging the RAM?
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« Reply #101 on: December 07, 2009, 10:57:20 AM »

more vcore Smiley
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« Reply #102 on: December 07, 2009, 09:50:04 PM »

Okay, it seems to run stable at 1.325 now, been running Prime torture test for over three hours with no errors. The bad news is, I'm already scratching on 60° when I'm doing this. I'm blaming the video card, which blows the warm air inside of the case and being a dual chip card it's also getting quite hot. Nothing I can do about that now, a new graphics card with not be bought until end of the next year probably...

Should I still try and see if I can reach 3.2? I can still revert it to 3GHz later.

What about RAM, Jordan? Did you see the difference between what is set up in BIOS (it's what BIOS is showing me as SPD values) and the SPD tab in CPU-Z? Which one should I trust? What does it mean anyway, my RAM is supposed to run at 200MHz or at 400MHz? We've seen it run at 412.5 MHz, but what would be the best? Currently it's on 333MHz at 1.8v at 1:1 FSB, meaning that if I'd up FSB some more, the clock on RAM will be upped as well. Not by much, but if it is supposed to run with 200 MHz and already running at 333, wouldn't it be pretty bad?
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« Reply #103 on: December 08, 2009, 01:05:39 AM »

Well.. its a toughie atm because you're reaching the limits of your cooling gear.. Looks like you're limited by your ram.. could you upgrade to some ddr2 800mhz? or even something faster (1066)?
Any DDR2 should work fine as long as they have the right xmp/spd profiles onboard Smiley

If I were you, I'd stick with the 3.0Ghz for now. have a play, see what your frame rates are like and enjoy the fruits of your labor.. then about a month or so from now have a go at the 3.2 mark
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« Reply #104 on: December 08, 2009, 01:36:00 AM »

actually power you could buy a rear exhaust

http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&sku=A2564829&dgc=SS&cid=41147&lid=1069636&acd=23975883824506126

http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/3518290/PCI-Exhaust-Extractor-Fan-Internal-PC-Cooler-For-PC-Mac/Product.html?ptsl=1&ob=Price&fb=0&&_$ja=tsid:11518|cc:|prd:3518290|cat:Components

you can probably find better than those but quite cheap anyway. Not that I know anything but its cheap enough that it might be worth throwing at your gfx to cool it a little
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 01:37:52 AM by discordance » Logged

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