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My CommunityForumGamingTeam Fortress 2Topic: Gravelpit - Which is easier to defend A or B?
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Author Topic: Gravelpit - Which is easier to defend A or B?  (Read 14194 times)
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Nineblade
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« on: March 17, 2009, 05:27:52 PM »

I reckon A is easier to defend but most teams defend B first and leave A to get capped.
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2009, 05:40:07 PM »

A is a lot easier Smiley

You have the height advantage (for all players)
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2009, 05:42:44 PM »

A is a lot easier Smiley

You have the height advantage (for all players)
This. 
There's alot of ground for the attackers to cover and more chance of them getting fragged or having to pop their uber early Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2009, 06:37:18 PM »

B is easier to lock down given time, which is why it generally gets attacked first. I saw A defended spectacularly by a team with a single sentry up top and two medics with kritzkriegs- even if you made it to the top with an uber to take the sentry out, a medic/solly team would storm in with a kritz and wipe the point. Generally they took you out before you got there. Normally though, the open space makes sentry set-ups harder, so the attackers eventually overwhelm the defenders by sheer pressure.
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2009, 07:12:52 PM »

I'd agree with A, its rarely "the one to defend" but when done well its near impossible, snipers can use the highground to their advantage and you really only need a single sentry as Chug pointed out, plus there is little threat from the monkeys on the roof. Its a shame that its almost always abandoned in favour of B.

Would like to see it given a bit of love Cheesy
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2009, 07:26:07 PM »

Would like to see it given a bit of love Cheesy
From time to time it happens to be the point people defend.

I honestly think they're all well balanced.
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Gasman
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2009, 10:31:58 PM »

For me the risk on Gravelpit is that defenders get time to dig in on B. Can make B unassailable. So commonsens says get in there first. However, this logic really only applies if the team stick to a single focused assault - which I haven't seen too often lately.
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2009, 12:47:00 AM »

Not sure.
Basically I tend to say B is easier to defend, and experience so far has showed supports that, but I admit that D often concentrates on B in the first place.

As attacker IMHO the smartest move is to have the larger part of the team attacking B while a smaller group (2-3, e.g. spy/pyro/scout) attacks A, but actually not necessarily to cap but to force Red to divide their defense.

But why not try that out in the next few days by concentrating on A and see how it goes?
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2009, 01:24:12 AM »

B is the easier one, but a good team can defend A. That's just it - a good team.

Problems are there are no good sentry positions, the area can be easily flanked from C (thus cutting off reinforcements and sniper positions at the same time), the open ground makes rocketjumps and stickies easy to get boosts across, and ubercharges can last the hill climb and get onto the point to then hold and take it.

Offensive snipers also kill almost all opposition. Lack of cover from them hurts A.

Both are pretty balanced (but you need a defending team to really cover one point in most games to put up any reasonable defence),  I'd just say A has more deficits for "easy" defence, which generally means a combo of sentries and counter ubercharges.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 01:29:03 AM by Finaldeath » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2009, 10:01:02 AM »

Gravelpit is bar none the best map of the game. Badwater is close, but gravelpit is still king! It's very balanced.

However, I have to go with B, purely because it's very hard to convince teammates to put effort in defending A. As a scout, A is much easier for me to defend, those rooftops were made for the scout, can reach anyone and surgically strike, get back on roof, and be golden. A is the best place for scouts in the whole game. Like I said, the mentality of players (turtle-turtle) is against defending A, because most people think defence is whacking 3 sentries in a corner. A needs a dynamic defence: demomen, kritz soldiers, a few snipers and scouts. I remember we once pulled off a great defence on gravel quite a few months ago, and the enemy couldn't take A. We had no sentries. Good times.
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2009, 10:32:32 AM »

Sorry, for me its B.

a) Its closer to spawn if no teleporters built
b) Multiple sentry locations with some cover
c) Roof access and higher defensive cover
d) sniping points
e) Multiple medical packs on the ground
f) Multiple metal packs on the ground
g) Limited access points (assuming roof is covered)

The other points are very exposed and result in classes having to cover multiple directions, as a heavy, I know I work better when I can cover fewer angles Wink
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2009, 03:08:23 PM »

A needs a dynamic defence

That may be an important notion: B supports a rather "static" defense (which is easier). A will definitely require a more fluid response and good coordination.
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2009, 03:09:44 PM »

A needs a dynamic defence

That may be an important notion: B supports a rather "static" defense (which is easier). A will definitely require a more fluid response and good coordination.
I guess that means I'll be defending B in future Cheesy
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2009, 03:21:18 PM »

I was under the impression you were glued to the roof anyhow ...  Huh?
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2009, 03:27:51 PM »

Speaking with my engineer hat on it's alot easier to defend B & C, very hard to get a decent sentry up on A and it needs to be defended.
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