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[Junta]

Scouts with key bind scripts can take down heavies easily as they do continually impossible jumps / twists and direction changes. Commonly, scouts under normal keyboard control can do 2 or 3 double jumps but not some of the endless cycles I've seen some players pull off!

Like I said, I personally consider key bind scripts (that automate near impossible keyboard combinations / actions) as a cheat!

[Trigger]

Scouts with key bind scripts can take down heavies easily as they do continually impossible jumps / twists and direction changes. Commonly, scouts under normal keyboard control can do 2 or 3 double jumps but not some of the endless cycles I've seen some players pull off!

Like I said, I personally consider key bind scripts (that automate near impossible keyboard combinations / actions) as a cheat!

Scouts with key bind scripts can take down heavies easily as they do continually impossible jumps / twists and direction changes. Commonly, scouts under normal keyboard control can do 2 or 3 double jumps but not some of the endless cycles I've seen some players pull off!

Like I said, I personally consider key bind scripts (that automate near impossible keyboard combinations / actions) as a cheat!

Damn, Junta figured me out! ... *removes hacks* ... I was clean all along, believe me!

I personally haven't seen any of these scripts, but I don't find scripts fun anyway, they are too limiting, and work in predictable patterns. Being random is one of the scouts bets assets.

[Junta]

I wasn't pointing the finger at you trigger, but i can see how my previous post gave that impression. My apologies!

[Trigger]

Oh I know you didn't mean me, silly! I just like to collect apologies from the clan leaders, call it my perversion

[Nineblade]

Oh I know you didn't mean me, silly! I just like to collect apologies from the clan leaders, call it my perversion

Of course he meant you. He just wasn't pointing his finger at the time

[Trigger]

Oh I know you didn't mean me, silly! I just like to collect apologies from the clan leaders, call it my perversion

Of course he meant you. He just wasn't pointing his finger at the time

*pats Nine's back of the head*

[Junta]

Oh I know you didn't mean me, silly! I just like to collect apologies from the clan leaders, call it my perversion

Of course he meant you. He just wasn't pointing his finger at the time

*slaps Nine's back of the head*

[Mosch]

The sandman is a big change, no doubt about that, but I prefer not using it (yes, I know I used it all the time, but only to get the achievements so I could get the bonk). It kinda gives rise to a noobish scout behaviour - for the sake of humor and slight inappropriateness I will call them "unterscouts". People who have never played scout seem to be flocking to the scout now (and why not, there are new weapons to be earned) and, not getting how the scout is supposed to work, attack people by running straight at them. The sandman helps with that - double jump is not necessary if you don`t actually play "scouty" and the stun is a sweet, sweet thing.
However, it sucks.
Yes, it`s quite powerful and yes, there are some tactics against it. If a scout finds you alone, you`re going to get sandmanned and then peppered with shots while you are unable to react. Not being able to react sucks BIG TIME. In this game my skill should decide wether I live of die. Everytime I die I can say "That was my fault - I was too predictable" or I missed or whatever. Sandman? Sorry, stand around like an idiot for some time.

Now, from my perspective (playing scout so much more than the other classes) the unlocks are all... kinda meh. The FaN is nice and the movement potential is good, but it cramps my personal playstyle. I usually jump in, fire, jump a second time to change direction and then do the close combat thing. The FaN works against this by pushing me out of close combat when I fire. Also the low ammunition is mildly annoying.
The sandman takes away my double jump. I love my double jump. I don`t love the sandman.
The energy drink... haven`t actually used it yet (just unlocked it yesterday) but it takes away the pistol, sirens on. If you use the FaN and the energy drink you have 2 shots, followed by a long reload time, with no chance to switch to your secondary (I have a lot more pistol kills than bat kills - I don`t really like hand to hand combat because I`m so bad at actually hitting anything) in exchange for a very situational bonus. It should be a viable choice with the scattergun though.

[Cheez]

Bonk! ? Useless for me. I mean, scout without double jump? Nothing is worth that imho! A scout was perfectly capable of dealing with any class 1v1 (save the sentry builder - can't remember class name, nvm anyway ) Scout could take down heavy like a cake even before, now it's just overkill, and annoying. I don't use it (have it unlocked). In fact, I don't use any of the updates, as scatter is superior to FaN, except for scout duels, and the FaN destroys the double jump.

100% with you on this one, had a quick go with FAN and I think its rubbish. Whats the point having a quick double shot if the first shot blows the enemy out of point blank range (where you wanna be for good damage) I would use this more without the knockback tbh.
Had some fun with the sandman but the limited mobility just made scout boring for me, nothing I enjoy more than bouncing around peoples heads using the double jump.

[Nineblade]

New T-shirt slogan - 'I was blown by a TF2 FANboy'

[Teatime]

there are some tactics against it.

What I miss are discussions how to *use* the sandman as a tactical device and how to integrate it in team tactics. I actually see some potential there.
As long as the Sandman is in the game we might as well come up with good uses for it which might enrich the game instead of complaining weeks and weeks about how it sucks.
(Not meant as a response to you, Mosch, just used you post as a jump-off point)

[Junta]

Where Sandman wins on tactics (for me) is the ability to hold up an uber prior to it reaching the core point.

For example, stunning the heavy or medic before they get close to a senrty gun, ultimately causing the attack to stall and for the other supporting classes in the assault to fail.

Its similar to the pyro air blast effect, this also interrupts an uber effectively.

[egg]

Where Sandman wins on tactics (for me) is the ability to hold up an uber prior to it reaching the core point.

For example, stunning the heavy or medic before they get close to a senrty gun, ultimately causing the attack to stall and for the other supporting classes in the assault to fail.

Its similar to the pyro air blast effect, this also interrupts an uber effectively.

If you can get close enough to the uber as a pyro without dieing in the first place

Bonk is much more affective in that if you hit the medic, you actually remove the uber from the ubered player, and this can be done from a safe distance.. Thus allowing the heavy to be killed off, and leaving the medic to uber no-one

[Mosch]

Stunning people for spys to backstab them works quite well, even if it is somewhat situational. If you`re a good shot you could probably also use it to force people into environmental hazards - like the train on well, or hit them when they`re jumping a gap. Note that this is purely theoretical - I have never managed to do this.