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[Chaos]

Today on the server we had a little arguement..

Should a scout be equal to heavy in 1on1?
I always thought it should be possible for skilled scouts to kill a heavy (with great difficulty still)
The sandman seems to have taken that 1v1 balance, spat on it, wiped its arse with it, given it AIDS, waited for it to die while poking it in the eye, then teabaged all over it!
Scouts should be strong against Demomen, Medics, Snipers (up close) and maybe soldiers (but not too strong against soldiers)
The Heavy should ideally RAPE the scout but now its not that case at all!
If a scout gets a hit with that effing ball your screwed! its not very often I kill any class postbonk..
its very annoying and I fear it will kill the game a bit

Discuss

[mark]

I agree but the scouts don't.

Valve aren't removing something they already put in we'll just have to hope for something awesome in the next update, maybe a new map...PLEASE!

Discuss

[Hzza]

I agree but the scouts don't.

LIES!

IMO, killing a heavy as a scout is possible, but only with shit loads of luck and probably equal ammounts of skill; you need to catch him unreved, from behind, on his own and you need to give him 2 meatshots to the spine and jump over his head without him noticing to stand a chance. I agree that the sandman does piss all over that and it does anoy me that just by pressing 3 then M1, even the most mediocre scout can do a heavy, thus ruining the class balance. On the flip side, it does make it all the more special when you kill a heavy without using the sandman!

[Terror]

I think it should be possible.

The scout has to have the bat equipped, and aim it properly, otherwise the heavy would win straight away.

[Junta]

Hmm...

What's the point of a heavy if he could *easily* be taken down by a much weaker class (key word = easily).

I'm quite happy for a tricky scout to take me down when I play heavy - dodging in and out, running for health, coming back and mixing close and long range attacks. To be clear though: I personally consider using key-bind scripts on a scout as cheating (i.e. press a button and get a complicated jump variation that a human could never do as quickly on the keyboard).

"Bonking" makes it impossible to survive a 1on1 if you get caught out and the FaN is equipped as well. Two quick blasts in the face and its all over by the time the stun wears off.

Now I'm the first to admit that Natasha has a serious impact on the scout, however, at no stage in the encounter does Natascha immobilise the scout or prevent an attempt at staying alive. I've seen good scouts use cover to avoid natascha, attacking at range with the pistol to chip away at the heavy's health.

Anyway, all this means that my strategy alters. When defending its good to stay close to sources of health, and a pyro buddy or a decent medic are quite good at watching your back! I salute the guys that look after the heavy, because once that silly baseball is dropped I can sure try to return the favour

[mark]

Well I have yet to be attacked after the nerf but I imagine it's the same scenario because it still takes time to wind up the MG.

[Hzza]

Well I have yet to be attacked after the nerf but I imagine it's the same scenario because it still takes time to wind up the MG.

I guess the only difference is that before it took 2-3 shots to kill you, now it'll take 4-6; factor in the spin up time and I suppose the only difference it really makes is that there's slightly more time for a team mate to come save you!

[Chaos]

I think any class should be able to beat any class without a doubt
But I also think some 1v1 situations should be more or less difficult depending on what classes are involved...
A scout SHOULD be able to take down a heavy.. but a good one, who, like John said jumps around, mixes up the battle and uses a lot of skill (and some luck as per Hzza)

Just like a sniper can take out a spy if hes spotted the blighter behind him before the stab.
Just like a spy killing a pyro from his disguise
Just like a demoman taking out a scout with the pipes
not to mention all those lucky things we do sometimes..

These things SHOULD be possible.. but not with the ease that the scout now has against the heavy...
I dont mind him killing the soldiers up close, its annoying but he did that anyway.. its just more humiliating now

The 1 thing I do like about the sandman is that its increased the playability of the scout meaning we see more of him now which is usefull for the attacking team for captures ect..
but I think the sandman needs to be nerfed against the heavy

[Terror]

TBH, the scout has to be far away to get a long stun with the sandman, which renders the the scattergun and FAN almost useless (low damage) so there's a pretty small range of distances in which it's effective.

[Chaos]

TBH, the scout has to be far away to get a long stun with the sandman, which renders the the scattergun and FAN almost useless (low damage) so there's a pretty small range of distances in which it's effective.

In theory thats right
In practice.. heavies keep dying

[Junta]

I'm personally seeing a stun effect long enough at closer ranges - for example, scouts popping round corners and having a pop.

[Hzza]

I'm personally seeing a stun effect long enough at closer ranges - for example, scouts popping round corners and having a pop.

I think this is the situation that buggers up heavies more then others; even the shortest bonk means they need to spin up again, adding another second or so on to the end of the stun. The buff that would sort out the heavie/scout/sandman issue would be that the heavies guns don't "spin down" whilst stunned. Not sure how much of a difference it would make, but it'd be a pretty good start!

[Nineblade]

Nowadays whenever I see a heavy they are either stunned or stuffing their faces with sandviches. I wonder if they are harder to kill if bonked whilst eating?

[Junta]

I'm personally seeing a stun effect long enough at closer ranges - for example, scouts popping round corners and having a pop.

I think this is the situation that buggers up heavies more then others; even the shortest bonk means they need to spin up again, adding another second or so on to the end of the stun. The buff that would sort out the heavie/scout/sandman issue would be that the heavies guns don't "spin down" whilst stunned. Not sure how much of a difference it would make, but it'd be a pretty good start!

No, I actually think if you're stunned then you *should* have to spin up the MG. Sadly the issue is that you can't change to another gun / fists any quicker either. Sort of resigns you to death! lol

[mode_seven]

Maybe the Sandman could have a lesser effect on the heavier classes, and vice versa? I mean, the Heavy's going to have a pretty thick skull, and the Soldier's wearing a helmet, you wouldn't expect a baseball to have quite such an impact.