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[claws]

I'd probably put spy in the first group, and scout in the second, but I broadly agree with you. Scout, sniper and demo are the three where players with great aim can rule.

[mode_seven]

Scout, sniper and demo are the three where players with great aim can rule.

Well, sort of, I still can't aim in a straight line in TF2.

[claws]

In that case, can you stop killing me?

[mode_seven]

Parabolas!

[LtMama]

more like PARABOLLOCKS!...I can't be like nick Although with my new mouse i find I'm playing demoman slightly better went on an absolute rampage on a GTFO server, something like 110-45-20 (K-D-A)

[Finaldeath]

SkyeSlipstream, I think you're dead wrong. On the first point, the sticky launcher is a perfectly acceptable way to fight in open quarters where the demoman is simply crap. The grenade launcher is much more effective thrown around corners (where stickies can't go) for it's own area denial and for killing more static targets. For your second point, If the demo can't do area denial of the main thing in the game people capture, I don't understand. That is basically all their class is, and since they are effective at what they do as much as any other class you slam them for it. I don't get it.

Anyway, Teatime, I disagree that while you might see a poor spy, scout or sniper perform poorly (thus the "exponential skill increase"), any mastered class is as good as any other with in their role. It just so happens the Spy and Sniper are excellent at killing things (instant kills) but are crap at actually winning a map except defensively, and the scout does the opposite almost and can be one of the lowest killing classes but ultimately actually has skills no one else has for achieving a win. All 3 take different kinds of skills (with the sniper requiring almost more map knowledge then the engineer to be effective).

It's like comparing apples to oranges. What metric do you work on anyway? Points? Funnily enough, those 3 get bonuses from their sappers, headshots and point captures respectively funnily enough - I've seen it be pretty even with even enough teams, even when people play their "excellent" class.

I think any excellently played class is excellent at what they can do, I just don't see the reasoning they are better then other classes when played well. That's just true of any of them.

[Nineblade]

Derail request submitted   

[Junta]

Request denied 

Nice to see some real thought on this topic - very interesting and opposing views.

[Chaos]

I have been playing demo a fair bit lately in order to see your point (mode and Junta)
I been finding out what planned spam is and what annoying spam...
here are some of my findings!

1. You dont need to lauch a load of pipes into spawn, you just dont...
2. Spamming round corners needs to be done, but not if you havnt seen anyone of course.. otherwise whats the point... lay stickies on the corner for when he comes back
3. hiding behind objects to launch pipes is a good idea, but not to lauch into spawn, cuz its more annoying for the spawners!

Hope that helps a little... seeing as theyr the main gripes

[Junta]

We have a no spawn camp rule here now anyway. Persistent offenders and all that.

[Chaos]

goodie
this should help to solve the problem..

I have no problem with demo men killing me with pipes or stickes... I do have a problem with spawn spam

[Nineblade]

We have a no spawn camp rule here now anyway. Persistent offenders and all that.

I'll tell you what really annoys me...
When the whole of the opposing team spawn camps at the start of dustbowl, goldrush and badwater

[Finaldeath]

In those situations Nineblade it doesn't need to go into the spawn. If the attackers don't bother with a good mix of classes and enough medics, it doesn't matter where the "spam" is to be honest.

[Nineblade]

I was only joking bout the spawn camping FD
To be honest, I enjoy the game in all situations whether it's being pwned constantly (usual case), spammed, spawn camped,winning or losing. There's always something funny to keep me entertained  especially on our server

[Cheez]

I was only joking bout the spawn camping FD
To be honest, I enjoy the game in all situations whether it's being pwned constantly (usual case), spammed, spawn camped,winning or losing. There's always something funny to keep me entertained  especially on our server

And thats why you are a legend.