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[egg]

lol at this thread 

I find that to play demo takes skill. It also takes skill (and right class) to beat a good one. Hes a class that needs to be mastered but once you have it takes a master (or scout) to take you down. People who cant play him, find him a frustrating character to be, so always choose someone easier (soldier / pyro ) This means that demo players are on average a better standard than the average soldier so appear to be overpowered.  I find this is also happening with the sniper... less and less people play him unless they are good, so it gives the impression the sniper is hacking as the average sniper ability is very high and all snipers now seem to head shot you.

Anyone who moans about how powerful demo is either jealous they cant play him well, or they cant beat him or simply does not realise the truth that the person at the controls is good at that class.

As Junta rightly says the demo has been constantly nerfed. However, players who play him regularly were already playing around these forthcoming weaknesses from the start.  For example stickies being broken.... a good demo would have ALWAYS hidden stickies or used them in quick fire..... more damage to self... perfect jumping and be aware of where all your stickies are. These are basic tactics that are well known (see modes post here on this forum) but yet people find it hard to play this way... For this very reason the nerfs 'appear' to have been ineffective, apart from making it hard for noob demos to play so there numbers are even lower than before making the demos around now seem even better as they are all playing at a high standard.

Basically everyone should stop moanin about how overpowered the demo is, when its the good players making him appear this way and lack of noobs playing as demo.  I have always used demo as my primary class.  I have nearly 200 hours of gameplay as him compared to the less than 100 of my next most used class.  I'm not saying I'm brilliant; on the contrary I'm an average demo but it took me all that time to be that good

not sure how much play mode has put in but I bet its a fair whack, and Junta has also been recently putting in the demo hours and he is learning the ways

PS Spam is a valid tactic for more than just the demo... soldier rocket spam, heavy spam by dispenser, SG is basically a spam gun (it takes no skill of engi to whack it all day long), pyro suicide rush is spam as the skill in pyro is to flame and retreat.  With skill and knowledge (semi) spam is definately a way to play eg 3 enemy on cap point... spam it with nades as running into range for stickies

Rant over 

Egg

PPS Hi everyone btw

[CruelCow]

It took 4 pages and a waaaay to long post to finally derail this thread! I'm impressed!

Welcome Egg

[mark]

Who else likes trains and elephants?

501 posts

[mode_seven]

not sure how much play mode has put in but I bet its a fair whack

103.4 hours.

Closest is Engi at 41.3. Which I guess may surprise some people, was my main class in TFC and early TF2.

[SkyeSlipstream]

I myself don't really have that big a problem with the Scottish wonder. However, there are two issues that have affected my judgment of him.

1) Most Demomen never use the grenade launcher or even the bottle and simply use the sticky bomb launcher. They don't even use it like the Demoman was intended; area denial and traps. Instead, they just shoot and detonate, shoot and detonate, so on.
Now, the stickies have already been reduced enough; most classes can at least survive one. It's either reducing the rate of fire or the time it takes to detonate them to keep the spamming limited while maintaining the power and lethality. Probably the latter in this case since reducing the rate of fire would make destroying Engineer camps harder.

2) Stickies on the point.
Ggggggreat.
With the recent update, I believe these can be destroyed with bullets and such, but I still feel putting stickies on the point is a lazy method of defense. Even lazier than the tankin' Engie.
Still, this is easily fixed by stabbing said Demo in the back, so I guess it's easy to combat...

[Junta]

lol at this thread 

I find that to play demo takes skill. It also takes skill (and right class) to beat a good one. Hes a class that needs to be mastered but once you have it takes a master (or scout) to take you down. People who cant play him, find him a frustrating character to be, so always choose someone easier (soldier / pyro ) This means that demo players are on average a better standard than the average soldier so appear to be overpowered.  I find this is also happening with the sniper... less and less people play him unless they are good, so it gives the impression the sniper is hacking as the average sniper ability is very high and all snipers now seem to head shot you.

Anyone who moans about how powerful demo is either jealous they cant play him well, or they cant beat him or simply does not realise the truth that the person at the controls is good at that class.

As Junta rightly says the demo has been constantly nerfed. However, players who play him regularly were already playing around these forthcoming weaknesses from the start.  For example stickies being broken.... a good demo would have ALWAYS hidden stickies or used them in quick fire..... more damage to self... perfect jumping and be aware of where all your stickies are. These are basic tactics that are well known (see modes post here on this forum) but yet people find it hard to play this way... For this very reason the nerfs 'appear' to have been ineffective, apart from making it hard for noob demos to play so there numbers are even lower than before making the demos around now seem even better as they are all playing at a high standard.

Basically everyone should stop moanin about how overpowered the demo is, when its the good players making him appear this way and lack of noobs playing as demo.  I have always used demo as my primary class.  I have nearly 200 hours of gameplay as him compared to the less than 100 of my next most used class.  I'm not saying I'm brilliant; on the contrary I'm an average demo but it took me all that time to be that good

not sure how much play mode has put in but I bet its a fair whack, and Junta has also been recently putting in the demo hours and he is learning the ways

PS Spam is a valid tactic for more than just the demo... soldier rocket spam, heavy spam by dispenser, SG is basically a spam gun (it takes no skill of engi to whack it all day long), pyro suicide rush is spam as the skill in pyro is to flame and retreat.  With skill and knowledge (semi) spam is definately a way to play eg 3 enemy on cap point... spam it with nades as running into range for stickies

Hello again and welcome back to the forum.

I actually agree lots with your post here - nobody picks up on soldiers "spamming" rockets (as I've said before). I also agree that on specific maps launching pipe bombs over obstacles is a valid tactic for area denial. I'd also agree that the recent "nerfs" have just made me more sneaky with the placement of my sticky bombs.

[Junta]

But that is not how it is.
Spectate any demoman you'll find that midair det. of sticky is much more common than pulling out the grenade gun.

Yes - I do it sometimes and it is deliberate. I often gets scouts or jumping soldiers this way

[claws]

Meh, soldiers get constant flak - too many crits, no skill, apparently it's some kind of 'noob' class now. What irks me most is the superiority complex some demos have, where their chosen class is 'best' and everyone else is lacking in skill, or jealous, or doesn't understand.

I think demos can feel a tiny bit overpowered, for two reasons. Firstly there's a large blast damage/radius, and they have a higher probability of non-crit accidental kills. Secondly, demo/sniper/etc have higher skill ceiling than some other classes : a good heavy is one thing, but a top demo can totally dominate.

But let's get this in perspective. I mostly play soldier/medic, and I can't remember thinking 'god, all demos are too powerful' much. They're a bit annoying, but that's what good players do. If you took a tiny amount of the damage away I wouldn't complain, but I won't be yelling for a nerf. The only people wanting demo chopped down are the Steam forums, and according to them every class is overpowered anyway.

[Junta]

I do think soldier is a hard class to play well - I tend to spam with it and aim at people's feet. Its very hard to move properly with it (rocket jumping) and harder to stay alive for long periods of time.

I do think that some soldiers do spam, but that's not to say that I think it is a "noob" class

[claws]

Good luck spamming your 4 rockets with that reload time. By the time you've fired the third one, they're all on the cart laughing at you

[Junta]

LOL

[Cheez]

Meh, soldiers get constant flak - too many crits, no skill, apparently it's some kind of 'noob' class now. What irks me most is the superiority complex some demos have, where their chosen class is 'best' and everyone else is lacking in skill, or jealous, or doesn't understand.

Totally agree with you here mate. Alot of people say soldier is the easiest class to pick up and play but i think this only the case literally just after you have installed the game. Once you know the game its piss easy to rack up loads of points with the demo with little skill whatsoever (eg. stickying cart/point). And then theres the 'no close combat defence' argument, lets be honest its not that hard to pipe someone in the face other than scouts. Not to mention that sticky jumping is much easier to pick up than rocket jumping.

Ps. Dont mind the demoman really, just sticking up for my fav class

[Junta]

oooh - controversial comments from Cheeze

Hardly anyone starts off playing demo.. its more something you slide into.. like the dark side

[mode_seven]

like the dark side

Join us, and you will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Ok, technically this was said by a good guy, but whatever.[size]

[Teatime]

On a more general note I think there are two groups of classes:
One with a (more or less) linear relation of skill/effectiveness and one where the skill/effectiveness is more exponential

The first group (IMHO) would be: Scout, Soldier, Heavy, Engy, Medic, Pyro
The second: Spy, Sniper, Demo

Meaning that the first group played by a lesser skilled person will still have some effect. As skill and experiences progresses the effectiveness of the class increases.
But the second group has a much meaner learning curve. When you have little skill your effectiveness is pretty much non-existent (besides some dumb luck). And it takes a lot more experience to gain the skill to be effective than the first group. That's of course pretty much what Egg said. But - in general - I also think that once someone has mastered one of those three classes they are even more dangerous than equally skilled players of other classes.