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[Junta]

*sigh* - where do I begin.

I'm seeing alot of anti-demo man comment and I feel the need to discuss here. Its not just a spam class and yes it is very effective in numbers. But then again, so are other classes (soldiers mass murder in groups).

The demo man class (is in my opinion) as crippled as it can be already. No other class has seen the same number of limitations imposed (maybe pyro comes close). To name but a few of the changes since the original TF2 release:

1) Severley reduced ammo
2) Change to reduce sticky and pipe bomb damage to others
3) Change to increase sticky and pipe bomb damage to self
4) Change to allow other classes to shoot and destroy sticky bombs

The problem with the Demo man is that is DOES take brains to play. I see people commenting about spam, and this usually arrises when there are no anti-demo men measures in place. Certain maps play to the demo man's strengths - the other team just has to change what they do and not keep walking into the same trap. Specifically, demo men should be fought with other demo men too. I've seen lots of one sided fights where a team has a couple of demo men and the other team does not.

If you all think playing demo man is easy - play it. See if simple spam tactics get you to the top of the rankings. I assure you it will not.

[Zarf]

I for one f'ing hate demo men. Their movements are too erratic, bloody difficult to hit them.

I suck at playing them too, don't have the patience for spamming or lying in wait, no matter how effective it is, and i'm not good enough at playing them more offensively.

[r007]

Heh, no, simple spamming techniques will get you nowhere, that's right. But a little more elaborate spamming will!

Simplest examples that pose challenges playing demo: Using the trajectory and bouncing of pipebombs to your advantage, or mastering ammo management.

Nothing better than a surprise nade to the face.

[mark]

But mainly spam and luck.

[Chaos]

i mean throwing a hundred pipe bombs into spawn is friggin annoying
i think it should be punishable in some way
im not saying that the demoman is just a spam class
and usually a good demoman like mode for example is awsome... for the most part you can see that mode isnt a spammer (thank god cuz hed be amazing at it)
setting sticky traps and general pipe use isnt the problem atm.. its the throwing of pipes from nowhere thinking its clever
it isnt

[Cheez]

The thing is chaos is that throwing pipes from where the enemy cant see you is clever, why come out into the open when you can stay in cover and be as effective?
Most people moaning seem to have a pretty silly concept of 'honourably fighting' in TF2 but if spamming your nades into a choke point is effective why not do it. Of course the reason why it seems so effective is because half the time our server is on Goldrush or Dustbowl the ultimate spam maps.
Where as on a 5 control point map eg. Badlands, any half decent scout or soldier will rape a demoman by jumping around above them or rocketjumping, respectively, and raining down death from above.
So i think if Valve succeed in their goals for the scout update (making it more DB/GR friendly) then you will see the demoman get another ninja nerf.

[mode_seven]

and usually a good demoman like mode for example is awsome... for the most part you can see that mode isnt a spammer (thank god cuz hed be amazing at it)

Why thank you, I try my best.

Equal cred to John though, some rather excellent plays on gravelpit the other day. Also watch out for tarred, among others.

Where as on a 5 control point map eg. Badlands, any half decent scout or soldier will rape a demoman by jumping around above them or rocketjumping, respectively, and raining down death from above.

Or any other map to be honest. Essentially, if you're a Scout, and a Demoman hasn't already got his sticky bombs prepared, you've pretty much got yourself a free kill right there. Asuming you have the sense to jump around a lot like a bastard good little Scout.

[Junta]

I agree that scouts are the bane of my life on open maps! And that is also a good point - not all maps suit the demo man.. just a couple with choke points.

[mode_seven]

And gravelpit, which is a sticky jumping playground.

[Cheez]

Yeah but anywhere you can go so can a scout and soldier.

[mode_seven]

Eh, I still have my fun, I don't care if I get a crap score on gravelpit, I pretty much expect it.

[Ringelbeatz]

Demos arent so annoying as Chaos with his sniperrifle

[Chaos]

Demos arent so annoying as Chaos with his sniperrifle

*blushes*

its the spawn spam i cant stand... 1 crit wipes out a team before they had a chance... not cool

I dont mind demomen at all... just spawnspam... its like the nades in tfc... stop it or itl ruin the game

[mode_seven]

Demos arent so annoying as Chaos with his sniperrifle

*blushes*

its the spawn spam i cant stand... 1 crit wipes out a team before they had a chance... not cool

I dont mind demomen at all... just spawnspam... its like the nades in tfc... stop it or itl ruin the game

Do you mean actually firing grenades into spawn or strategically placed stickies on doorways? In the former case Valve improved things from TFC enormously via level design. In the latter, you're lucky to get one or two kills without anyone noticing.

EDIT: On the level design comment, admittedly things still need improvement on Stage 1 of dustbowl, Stage 2 is better than on TFC though and Stage 3 significantly so.

[Chaos]

i mean the former
it just takes the fun out of it
if theres a sniper at the door (inc me) go nuts.. but aim for the sniper, not everyone else behind