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[CruelCow]

Well I think we all agree that Pipeline is a proof of concept at best and really a shame for valve. I think it can be saved though.

IMHO the biggest problems are

• Forced Spawncamping
• Next to no chance for a comeback

My suggestion for the second issue is the following: Throw away the two carts concept, but make it one cart rolling in either direction. No rolling back, whatever team is near it pushes it, both teams is a block of course. There might be a need to reduce the speed but playtesting will show that.
The cart starts in the middle now of course.
Thinking about it, maybe rolling back towards the middle ain't that bad, gotta try that too.


Spawncamping will be harder to fix, however a quick fix for stage two could be to move the end point to where you get up on the first floor, "hidden" stairs, after the tunnel exit.

[Junta]

Yeah, I'm seeing a lot wrong with pipeline too. The "clusterf*ck" near the spawn exits is annoying and only the 3rd and final level moves away from that slightly (but even then its way too spammy).

[Mr Chug]

I've had a lot of fun on pipeline (most of my engineer records were set when I managed to build a sentry overlooking the opposition's side of the tracks on stage 1) but the first two maps are hindered by dominant sentry positions and the previously mentioned spam around the spawns and the third is too short (and again can be won by having a sentry on the top level).

I'd like to see a single large map in the payload race style, in a sort of ring shape around two central spawns with multiple exits around the ring, and the tracks alternating between high and low ground, with a tricky final push for both sides leading to the same point. This is of course all shouting into a void as I've no real map making skills to make it happen

[Finaldeath]

The maps are not the best suited to constant pushing with having to move the carts. However they're still pretty fun!

Main thing is having an offensive team. A defensive team just doesn't get it.

[Ringelbeatz]

I've got the feeling that valve thought: okay... it's a sniper update, lets give the sniper a map where he can shoot enemies like clay pigeons....

[mode_seven]

I've got the feeling that valve thought: okay... it's a sniper update, lets give the sniper a map where he can shoot enemies like clay pigeons....

I know what you mean. The tunnel on stage 2 is absolutely perfect for the Huntsman.

[Teatime]

I agree with the spawncamping, but that could be fixed easy enough by creating multiple exit ways or even 2 different spawns (a bit like Badwater red base). I could also imagine a map design where the spawn is located equally near to the start point of the carts and the own cap point, but have the track lead in a curve around it.

I don't think having only one cart would be an improvement. If both teams are equally strong it will be a stalemate and take forever (similar to a tug-of-war map). Each team having it's own cart offers the possibility of different tactics and allows a team to shift focus from O to D (or vice versa) if needed.
Ring shaped could be done, but really requires good map design to have it not be confusing (like snake temple or what it's called.
I think there can be excellent maps based on the 2cart idea.

Though (insert advocatus diaboli) chances are those maps will be custom and we don't do custom maps, do we?

[[HAM]Fisted]

well another method is to make sure the spawn is placed away from the track at one side and from spawn you can join the track at different locations. This would make it very fast paced but would solve the spawn camping. the cart would not lead other players to spawn camp and only griefers would really go to the spawn and occasional spies. you could even force players to drop down from a ledge to prevent most clases reaching spawn

[Finaldeath]

Actually, each of the spawns do have multiple exits (going up/down/out depending on which stage) - just usually people never take the alternative ones (the first stage actually it is much worse taking the alternative exit).